Well maybe not the first date using Match.com but certainly within the first three - it's info a guy should have. But you're only 25. You might change your mind one day about the definitiveness of those desires.
The marriage/living together could change.The kids thing won't. My tubes are tied. I probably hate children more than anyone I've ever known."I think it is good that you tell your dates early on that you don't want a serious relationship (thru Match.com) upfront!!! "Just to clear up a common misconception....I DO want a "serious" relationship. I want love, passion, and something long term. I just don't want him living my space (I'm obsessive about it), don't want to be legally/financially bound to him, and don't want to pop out any sprogs with him..
Edited 4/10/2008 10:46 pm ET by thestral..
So, even if you put aside the marriage/cohabitation thing, how about the kids thing?What's the best way to bring that up?And once I mention that I don't want kids, am I "obligated" in any way to mention that I've had a tubal? Isn't my *ability* reproduce a moot point in light of the fact that I have no *desire* to reproduce?Again, I've been really upfront about it but I'm starting to wonder if I really have to go so far as to discuss my medical history so soon. It always leads to a lot of awkward questions. I end up having to explain how much I detest children and then the guy thinks I'm a weirdo...
It's obvious you don't want kids. I think most guys will think "well now - no" after you tell them that children do not fit into your plans for the future. You come across very strong - I'd take that down a notch. Don't show that you are adiment about it right away. If the guy pushes the subject, you could show him you are serious by just stating the fact that you had your tubes tied..
You will have guys not want to date using Match.com you for this. Some people want to have kids. Maybe a better way of finding this out is to ask him if he wants to have kids some day?.
Thank you for the response krist.I know I do come across strong...but it's always been for the reason of not wanting to waste anyone's time.I've had a problem in the past with people not taking me serious about the kid's thing, such as the man who "forgot" to mention to me upfront that he has a daughter that doesn't live with him (What part of "I don't date using Match.com men who have kids" did you not understand?)Or they accept that I don't like kids but then drag me to family functions that are crawling with them...Or my favorite, the ex that dated me on and off for 3yrs and told me up from the beginning that he didn't want kids and was ok with me not wanting them...Then low and behold, his 40th b-day comes up and all of a sudden he's having second thoughts.It's just very frustrating...
I think that you just need to learn a little patience. The kids issue is a real biggy and there are guys out there that don't want kids, you just have to find the right one. I just know that I've always done better in relationships when I make sure that I can do both give and take. You don't have to give on the kids issue. That's one of your deal breakers and that's okay. We are all a little different. You know this might sound funny, but this thought crossed my mind. Have you thought of maybe dating (online dating with Match.com) an older guy? They seem to know what they want in life a little more than those in your age group..
What is the age range of the men you're dating? You might find better luck dating (online dating with Match.com) men who are a bit older. I know you're only 25 ... but, you mentioned dating (online dating with Match.com) a guy who turned 40 ... it doesn't sound like you're adverse to dating (online dating with Match.com) older men? .
That way, you will be encountering more men who already know what they want ... and you find the ones that don't want kids. Or, they may have kids that are a bit older ... would consider a 16 or 17-y/o a kid? Or by 'kids' do you mean offspring in general ... or having school-age children?.
It might be going a bit far to be so annoyed by going to family functions that are 'crawling with kids' ... I mean, I understand you detest children ... but, it's just a day! That's where a little flexibility and accomodating comes into play. None of us can have all things our way all the time. Kwim? ..
I think it is wise to ask them what they want out of life up front. However, as you have experienced, men do change their mind as time rolls on and then ... what do you do? Even if you do tell them what you want...chances are good that they are not hearing you because in their minds they can change your mind..
Other posters suggested someone older than you who doesnt want to reexperience the pregnancy, child rearing time of their youth. That might be a way to go..
<<Have you thought of maybe dating (online dating with Match.com) an older guy? They seem to know what they want in life a little more than those in your age group.>>I generally date using Match.com men age 35-40. Do you think I need to go older than that?<<r, they may have kids that are a bit older ... would consider a 16 or 17-y/o a kid? Or by 'kids' do you mean offspring in general ... or having school-age children?>>I want a man who is completely child-free as I am. Men with children, regardless of their age, have a set or priorities that are different from truly CF people. I dated one guy that had an older stepdaughter from a previous marriage who he was close to and I was constantly ticked off at his need to call her, go see her, change plans because of her, etc.
I can't be sexually attracted to a dad. It's just sort of "wrong" for me.<<n their minds they can change your mind.>>And that is parrt of what ticks me off. I don't enter into a relationship (thru Match.com) trying to or assuming my partner will, change.I don't think that's fair. Hopefully, knowing about my tubal will set a lot of those men straight though.<<It might be going a bit far to be so annoyed by going to family functions that are 'crawling with kids' ... I mean, I understand you detest children ...
I know all this sounds weird...I just have a pathological hatred of children and it really affects my dating (online dating with Match.com) life...
<I also find something really vile and disgusting about knowing a person has reproduced. I can't be sexually attracted to a dad. It's just sort of "wrong" for me.>.
Umm, I just have to say that my jaw kind of dropped when I read this line. You certainly are entitled to feel the way you do, however, 2 good friends of mine who decided kids were not in their picture do not share your feelings. I have seen them in action at family functions and even though they choose not to have children they find some joy interacting and watching them and listening to their parents go on about the recent milestones they have reached - they certainly do not experience a high level of annoyance and they wouldn't ever feel they had to hold back for fear of insulting a parent. .
I experience you as feeling angry and am wondering...have you thought of talking to a therapist about this? Feeling "disgusted" knowing a person has reproduced...you're referring to a completely natural, inherently instinctive process for a very large segment of people... .
My concern for you is by not coming to terms with why you feel this way you are automatically eliminating a very large pool of men and women for all types of relationships...
<<Thank you for all the advice guys. I know all this sounds weird...I just have a pathological hatred of children and it really affects my dating (online dating with Match.com) life.>>.
Have you considered counseling? I mean, on one hand it's good 'n all that you have accepted this about yourself ... I have to ask, do you LIKE this about yourself? That you pathelogically hate children?.
I think if a person has hate in their heart ... for anything or anyone ... you are significantly affecting your chances in life for love. Love and hate cannot co-exist. Just like love and fear do not co-exist. And, it sounds like your thinking is that, so long as you don't have to co-exist with children ... that you can have love in your life ... but that only removes the physical aspect of it (ie, physically having children around) ... what about the emotional and spiritual aspect of it? With that hate in your heart for children, spiritually that is going to affect your ability to love and receive love. .
I'm not saying you have to LOVE kids ... it's obvious that that isn't going to happen ... but, perhaps some counseling to overcome this hate that exists. .
Just a thought .......
I've been to therapy over it. The therapy mostly helped me with learning how to act in public around kids. Ie, learning to control my anger towards the parents,learning to hold my tongue better, etc.I do not believe loving children is any more necessary for spiritual happiness than loving dogs or spiders is. We all have things we dislike/hate, and for me it is babies.Oh and no, I have no interest in over-coming this issue. None at all. I feel like I'm the one who is enlightened enough to understand how vile children are...and I feel very genuinely sorry for the all the poor women wasting their lives being mothers.<<, 2 good friends of mine who decided kids were not in their picture do not share your feelings.
I, however, hate children. I do not take any joy in seeing or interacting with them. I want them kept as FAR from me as possible and the last thing I want to listen to is some SoccerMom rambling about her brood's "milestones."I'm sorry if some people don't like hearing that, but it's just how I feel.Edited 4/12/2008 4:10 pm ET by thestral.
Edited 4/12/2008 4:15 pm ET by thestral..
Those are quite some emotions there! It's good to know and have your standards. I absolutely love children, so I'm not sure I could ever understand where your emotions are coming from, but it's just who you are and it seems that you are happy being that way. You've sought help and have made effort to control these emotions in public which I think is great. Now what to do about telling men these views...As others have said...a majority of people like/want to reproduce and the ones that don't probably don't have as much reservation as you do. I think you should continue to be honest and be yourself, obviously if the man freaks or gets weirded out then it's not going to work anyway right? You don't seem to have a problem sharing these views to total strangers online and so you should keep that same confidence when telling a man who you are and what you believe. You'll probably get a bunch of negative reactions but hatred is a negative thing so you are going to get what you give....might as well show them who they will be dealing with in a relationship.I googled hatred for children online (cause I haven't really heard of someone who has hated children so much) and you honestly are not alone which means there is someone out there who will be compatible withy you.
Have you tried online dating? Maybe put a profile up and state your views explicitly, that way you don't really have to explain yourself when you start dating...Good Luck!..
Thank you for your constructive response, Shell.Yes, I have done a lot of online dating...I'd say I've met probably 2/3 of my dates that way. I am still doing that, and it's definitely easier to mention things in a profile (though you would be amazed how many men don't seem to read the profile...They can't seem to even understand that I'm seeking a man who isn't married, let alone one who doesn't want kids.) However, it's a lot easier to "nip things in the bud" early online.I had one that I had been talking to online for a few days when the subject of children came up (I had listed myself as child-free in the profile) and apparently he had not understood what that term meant. "Well I thought you just wanted someone who didn't have kids, NOW." It was nice to get that out of the way BEFORE I bothered meeting him.However,I do still occasionally meet people in "real life", so I still want to know how to broach that subject in face-to-face interaction.I guess I'll just continue with my normal routine...I actually normally don't get a horrible reaction in person the way I do online...but I think that has a lot to do with tone of voice and body language that doesn't come through online. When I mention hating kids online, I often get accused of bitterness in anger...but when I mention it in person, they can hear my light hearted tone of voice and the majority of folks are like, "Hey, you are who you are....Never heard of that, but everyone is different."..