Yeah man, make sure you have your nolva on hand BEFORE you begin the cycle.
At least you are in the right place to learn more, filter few the steroid threads and sticky's, there is loads out there for you to read up on. Have you considered that you may be turning to the darkside a little prematurely after only a year of training and only weighing 11 stone?? I'm no expert and there will be many more qualified people advising you on this board I'm sure, but I would suspect that you are no where near at the level that you could potentially reach thru good diet and serious training for at least another year. Do a lot more reading on this board and others before making a more 'educated' decision. All the best with whatever you decide...
Where's Tall Heavy and Skinny?? couldn't help but feel my post sounded strangely like something he would say =)..
What the fact that all my posts are condescending?..
He is right mate, I to find a lot of your replies to be condescending...
You fail to see my point TH&S because I'm not making one ok, I was just agreeing that I too find that some of your reply's to be condescending and sometimes to be quite mocking/ridiculing. Now maybe thats your very dry sense of humour, however sometimes this does not come over to well..
Hopefully now you see the point...
That would be you're, as in the abbreviated version of 'you are' .....
Come on my post was at least 4 times more condescending than that...
Ha, sorry mate, I actually meant the post with the advice, it seemed very similar to some of your posts that I have read in the past, didn't mean to kick off a discussion on your tone. Oooops! =/..
I gathered that mate which was why I went for the funny option of self depreciating dry humour as indicated by the smilies..
Just incase any of you are unaware... that means I poked fun at myself... Oh and this statement is ironic... or is it...?..
Ahh, but was it as condescending as my grammar correction...?..
What happenned to all the love on this forum?..
I think it's mainly bickering based as opposed to built on love....
And were you quoting the infamous Darius...???..
Nope I'll give you that you win with the old your/you're...
Anyway BACK on topic............
My earlier response was short and a little harsh so I'll be slightly more constructive. If you don't know what PCT is you are not yet ready to go anywhere near steroids. PCT is post cycle therapy. In case you haven't looked it up yet it's the process of speeding up the restoration of your natural testosterone production (because by taking steroids you have stopped this ..... yep stopped) by taking nolva/clomid and less often but still very commonly other substances such as HCG/aromasin.
A usual and incredibly basic PCT protocol is.
Day 1 (this is the first day of PCT and depends on the half life of the steroid you have been taking. Assuming your taking oral Dbol (or injectable for that matter) only then Day 1 of your PCT is the day after your last dbol tab).
Day 1 = 60 - 100mg nolva.
Day 2 - 15 = 40mg nolva.
Day 15 - 28 =20mg nolva.
DO NOT START DBOL until you understand why you have to do this. Its for your own benefit. Also assuming you have no other meds than Dbol what are you going to do about increased blood pressure or gyno or any of the other side effects that may occur..
Secondly what dose are you taking dbol and for how long?..
Aromatase inhibitor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - READ.
Selective estrogen receptor modulator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - READ..
Now whilst I'm not saying your wrong here YG, but Bodyworks does no PCT so one would ask the question is PCT really needed or are we all just saying it is because it's the norm?..
We could argue this point all day, but regardless of whether it's 100% essential or not, most users may aswell use some level of PCT as it's cheap and in why risk your gains by not doing one?.
There will be people who do not do a PCT and there will be people who find they don't need one, it's personal choice I suppose but the majority opinion seems to advocate some form of PCT...
Now there was me trying to mind my own business and diffuse an argument.... and happy days I get dragged into one..
First off I really, really don't like what you just did there. Now me and Cal and Bully disagree (actually not that much these days) on what the best way to train is and I'm happy for them to bring into question the way I train and I'm sure I've posted just to pick a fight with them about training in the past but thats training. Now posting to pick a fight about PCT which is what I feel you have done and correct me if I'm wrong is a totally different story.
This is ****ing with someones endocrine system and you know as well as I do that you don't believe what you posted.
Now BW is a far better BBer than I'll ever be but that said I give my advice based on my own research and understanding. If you can show my any evidence for not doing PCT from a scientific standpoint in relation to health or BBing then I'll happily change my opinions. I'll even help you..
PCT has the aim of restoring your natural testosterone production quicker than would happen naturally..
In order to actually discuss this properly you must provide evidence that.
A) PCT does not do this; or.
B) this is not a positive aim..
If the only point you make is well that big guy doesn't do it then I think it's a bit pointless to debate it. Also I didn't say it was necessary, on most occasions your test production will return to normal albeit slower, losing you more muscle in the process. We shouldn't talk in necessary/ unnecessary and possible/impossible..
You can drive a car with your feet if you want to that doesn't make it a good ****ing idea...
Couldnt agree more YG.
+as far as I know bodyworks only comes off cycle very occasionally.....gives it a few weeks and restarts....
I`m sure he`ll correct me if i`m wrong assuming he`s going to acknowledge my post.
This is turning into a warrior thread..
Chris I told ya in pm to google pct and do search off this site..
Then ask some some questions.....
What a load of waffle, and i'd like to see your evidence that PCT actually works. I mean lets really pick a fight here, err you never mentioned HCG, now thats should be part of PCT..
Anyway I always use PCT...
1. I did mention HCG it was the third of the 4 meds I mentioned?.
2. ' Sex Med. 2005 Sep;2(5):716-21..
Clomiphene citrate effects on testosterone/estrogen ratio in male hypogonadism..
Shabsigh A, Kang Y, Shabsign R, Gonzalez M, Liberson G, Fisch H, Goluboff E..
Department of Urology, NY Presbyterian Medical Center, New York, NY, USA..
AIM: Symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism is associated not only with a decline in serum testosterone, but also with a rise in serum estradiol. These endocrine changes negatively affect libido, sexual function, mood, behavior, lean body mass, and bone density. Currently, the most common treatment is exogenous testosterone therapy. This treatment can be associated with skin irritation, gynecomastia, nipple tenderness, testicular atrophy, and decline in sperm counts. In this study we investigated the efficacy of clomiphene citrate in the treatment of hypogonadism with the objectives of raising endogenous serum testosterone (T) and improving the testosterone/estrogen (T/E) ratio. METHODS: Our cohort consisted of 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism defined as serum testosterone level less than 300 ng/dL.
Analysis of baseline and follow-up serum levels of testosterone and estradiol levels were performed. RESULTS: The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 +/- 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 +/- 10.9, respectively. By the first follow-up visit (4-6 weeks), the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 +/- 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients.
This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway..
Fertil Steril. 2006 Nov;86(5):1513.e5-9..
Complete reversal of adult-onset isolated hypogonadotropic hypogonadism with clomiphene citrate..
Ioannidou-Kadis S, Wright PJ, Neely RD, Quinton R.'.
Happy? Thats clomid please don't make me bore the shit out of everyone with studies for all the other meds...
Chill out people ****ing hell....
Thats why I thought id ask to get some straight questions to get answers to what I dont understand,and now I have to great...
Mate were having fun, it's just the banter of this forum YG loves it. He's always right..
Ha ha what a thread. I dont post on here much but I was about the same us you mate same age height and weight and with plently of reading and learning. iv changed my training and diet and the gains have been solid. I would say from what I have learnt you are far away from needing steriods, as I am!.
Read the site learn plenty and dont take the easy option of doing a course, I thought this but after reading all the stickys and threads on related articals I now know far more..
Hope this helps mate, anyway back to the banter..
From when you chnaged your diet when did you start seeing gains..i couldnt train any harder honest!and thought my diest was pretty much sorted but could fine tune I suppose...Tell me more..
Well abit hard to say, but from when I changed my fairly good diet average intake to a more of a bulking diet I started to notice gains within a few weeks and have been for about 2 months now..
Have you posted you routine? as I also changed to loads more compound work and lifting more weight. Combine a good bulking diet and some heavy compounds for a few weeks and keep an eye on the scales..
But from what iv also learnt on here, is somethings work for some and not others but this has worked for me..
I believe you bud but i`m sure you could train more productively and thereby get the results that reflected the effort you put into training..
Personally before I read brawn (yeah yeah haha)i trained my ass off and when I didnt get results-.
I trained even harder.....
I simply burnt out!.
I said about this in my PT thread(beginers section).
I got radical and started training less frequently and this allowed me to pour more effort into the big exercises....and grow!..