Muscle building product sell from VitaminShoppe, got negative effect?

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My first question is: Muscle building product sell from VitaminShoppe, got negative effect?.

My next question is: New to Steroids? Read here.

This is not meant to be an exhaustive post on everything a newbie need to know about steroids, rather more of an introductory primer to using this website and more importantly using potentially dangerous and possibly illegal substances.

Here are the basic things that must be/have happened before you even think about using ANY sort of AAS:.

1. You must be at least 21 years old. This is not a legal thing, it is a health and safety issue. If you start using steroids too young, you run the risk of closing your growth plates and permanently shutting down your body. I know at least two people who have personally experienced this and are not on HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy) at the tender age of 23. I know the urge to get big, but try creatine, protein or NOexplode or something similar until you are old enough..

2. You must have been lifting properly and consistently for several years (minimum of 18 months). This means that you have been lifting seriously and applying yourself the whole time, not here and there just tossing some dumbbells around. I mean hard and intense lifting at least 3-5 days a week hitting all body parts and using good form on every exercise and emphasizing compound movements. No matter how old you are, you will make great gains when you first start lifting and it is important that you have actually exhausted your natural potential before touching any type of gear. How do you know when this has happened? When you are consuming over 4000 CLEAN calories a day and lifting PROPERLY for 6-8 months with limited gains AFTER lifting for 1-2 years consistently.

3. You must have a thorough and complete knowledge of diet and nutrition. I will tell you right here and now a big secretwhat the most powerful steroid isFOOD! You will not grow unless you consume extremely high quantities of food, however this is not an excuse to eat what ever you want when ever you want. You need to understand the different macro-nutrients, how they affect your body, what proportions to have them in and how your body reacts to each. Generally speaking, you want 1gm of protein for every pound of body weight, each day. When bulking line your protein/fat/carb intake in a 40/20/20 ratio. Since this is not a sticky on diet, I will rest this topic here by saying that steroids do not make you big, eating lots of good food and lifting lots of heavy weights many times do.

4. You must have a thorough and complete understanding of whichever type of substance you are about to put into your body. Honestly, it completely disgusts and equally worries me when I hear someone say, my buddy gave me some stuff and said I should take this much every day. How in the world anyone could ever get any liquid and inject it without fully knowing the potential positives and negatives is beyond meyet people do it.

5. Do your own research..

6. Do your own research.

7. Do not trust your buddy unless you are 100% absolutely sure he knows what he is talking about and even then, verify this information based on your own research. Educate yourself and always remember that there is someone else that you can learn from as time goes on.

8. Plan your first cycle well based on your goals and your needsbut remember that since you have never used some of these substances before, you dont know how you will react to them. So it is better to start off slow and do just run a simple course of test with proper pct. I personally know at least two guys who didnt take this advice and had some bad reactions to one of the things they were taking, but didnt know which, so they had to stop their whole cycle.

9. Speaking of cycle planning, DO NOT start a cycle until you have ALL your gear in you grubby little paws. This includes all the gear you will need for your whole cycle, your PCT (post cycle therapy), and any anxicillaries you will need during and after your cycle. Some times stuff happens and you dont get a package, it gets seized, your source runs out, you get gyno when you didnt expect to, whatever. Your body will not wait for shipping, you to save up some money or any thing else. Have a little patience and get everything ready before you even start.

The rest of this is not particularly ordered, but it is all important information..

1. Im looking for (whatever), can anyone help me out? NO, we cannot and will not. A solid and reliable source is hard to come by and most people are VERY hesistant to just hand them out to people they dont know. Furthermore, open posting source requests like that immediately make you fish bait for scammersheres how it goesIm new here and on my first post say, Im new here, just lost my source and looking for some dbol for my next cycle. Now remember, if you found this site, so can anyone elseso there are lots of scammers who frequent these boards as non-members and watch for guys like me. They see my post and send me a private message or email telling me they can get me what I need. Im pleasantly surprised and immediately reply yes, thank youI send them money and then they send me either a) nothing at all or b) stuff that is either completely fake, underdosed, or at best sterile oil and at worst non-sterile that when I shoot it gives me a nice abscess at my injection site that I will have to go to the hospital and get cut open and drained..

2. While Im talking about injections, it is very important that you know how to do this. If you are not ready to inject yourself (or at least have a friend do it) then you are not ready for steroids, end of story. You need to know how to draw, how to inject, and how to aspirate. Your glutes (Ass), quads (thighs, but only front and side, NOT inside!) and delts (shoulders) are generally the most common injection sites. The rule of thumb is 3cc for the glutes, 2cc for the quads and 1cc for the delts. Of course, the bigger the muscle, the more juice you can put into it, however there are still limits; even if youre a big guy, more than 1.5 to 2 cc in the delt is pushing it.

3. Sterile procedures must be followed. Inject in a clean place in your house, clean the top of the vial first. Draw the desired amount. Switch to a new pin since piercing the rubber stopper will dull the pin. Clean the injection site and then swiftly and smoothly slide the needle deep into the muscle at a right angle to the skin. Draw the plunger back just slightly, enough to see bubbles and not blood (aspirate).

Inject the substance slowly and steadily. Take your time, there is not hurry on this. After you have injected the entire contents of the syringe, leave it in for about 10 second then slide it out at the same angle you went in on.

4. Needles. As the brits like to say they are cheap as chips. Im not from the U.K., so I can only assume that this expression means that they dont cost much. There is really no excuse for re-using needles or even using the same one to draw and shoot with. Needle gauge is fairly simple and straightforward. The smaller the number the bigger the diameter of needle.

So it is generally recommended to shoot with a 23 or 25 gauge pin and draw with a 21 gauge since the small the pin, the longer it takes to push or pull any thing through it. Again the rule of thumb for length is: 1.5 long for glutes, 1 for quads and 5/8 for delts and elsewhere. Honestly you can use 1.5 for any body part, as long as you simply do not plunge it in as far. So for example, you bury the pin all the way into your glute, but only slide it about 1/3 of the way into your delt..

5. Oral only cycles are garbage, nuff said. If you dont know why yet, research liver toxicity of 17AA compounds..

6. No test = no cycleno ands, ifs, or buts about it. There are so many reasons for this I dont have the space to go into it nowdo your research and let me know why..

7. Your first cycle should be simple and clean. 500mg/week of Testosterone Enanthate for 12 weeks followed by 21 days of PCT. PCT should be like this:.

Clomid: Day one, 300mg.

Day 2-10, 100mg.

Day 11-21, 50mg.

Nolvadex: Day 1-14, 40mg.

Day 15-30, 20mg.


Nolvadex: Day 1-21, 40mg.

Personally I prefer the first suggested course, however as I write this some are having success with the second course. After you finish this cycle and pct, you take time off. The general rule is that you should take off as much time as you were on (including PCT). So for a 12 week cycle followed by a 3 week PCT you should take off at least 15 weeks at the end of your PCT. This allows you body to fully recover and stabilize before starting again. Having said this, the only true way to know you are fully back to normal is to get blood work done and have all your levels checked.

Miscellaneous Thoughts.

1. Roidrage is largely a myth. I say largely, because it does exist, however mostly in people who had limited control over themselves before the started using gear.

2. Ever wonder why there has been 10 views and no replies to your question? Probably because you have either asked a question that is so basic and simple that if you read this or any other sticky you would have your answer OR it is a question that has been asked and answered SOOOO many times that no one has the patience to answer it again, nothing personal..

3. Use the search feature on this site before asking your question. Especially if you are new to the bodybuilding, supplement and /or steroid game. If you cant find the search feature, check my signature, the link is there. Believe it or not, this forum has been around a LONG time and has TONS of great information if you only look for itprobably 90% of your questions could be answered that way. If you still cant find you answer, ask away!.

4. When you do ask a question, please include the following: how old you are, how long youve been training for, what your diet is like, cycle history, height, weight and body fat %...this will save us from having to ask you these questions before answering any of your questions.

5. Neither me nor anyone else knows how much how much you will gain on any given cycle. If I could tell the future, I certainly would not be sitting here typing this for you. Your gains will largely depend a great many factors including your diet, training, dosages and compounds used and your genetics. You generally get out of a cycle what you put into it.

6. You cannot cut and bulk at the same time. Its just not possible, forget about it. If you think you are ready for steroids and want to get big, you should do just that, dont waste your first cycle on a cutter. If you really feel you need to cut, do it naturally down to about 11-14% before starting any gear.

7. Learn from those who have done it, not websites. I have seen numerous websites that offer lots of disinformation about steroids. I even saw one that recommends a perfect mass builder stack of deca/dbol with no pct regimen. If ya dont know whats wrong with that, please see numbers five and six in the first section. Remember, many of us have already made the mistakes and have had to learn the hard way, so why not just do it right the first time out yourself?.

8. Please learn terminology, but try not to be insulting. No one calls it roids and if you do we will probably mock you before answering your question..

9. There is a trusted sources section here. You will not get into it right away, and maybe not even for a while. You gain access to it by becoming an asset to the site and the members here. You gain access over time and after the mods and admin here know you. Please dont believe that after two posts here your going to get valuable access to our sources, regardless of how long youve been in the game somewhere elseagain nothing personal, just the way it goes.

I know this has been a lot to read, but believe me, it is well worth it and before you even consider going any farther, you have a lot more reading to do. Hopefully this has answered more questions, but hopefully you also have a lot more questions. Overall, this is an excellent hobby and can be very enjoyable, but it must be carefully thought out and well planned to be executed properly. It can be expensive, but in this case, going cheap is not a good idea. Good Luck and Enjoy safely, were all here to help!.


Addition courtesy of Young Gun:.

May I add to this thread quickly for anyone that is planning a first cycle and got bored reading that post and skipped to the bottom..


Finally if you have to ask are you old enough to use AAS..


Comments (82)

Your question was: Muscle building product sell from VitaminShoppe, got negative effect?.

Yeah good post, only point I disagree on is the 'minimum of 18 months' lifting. I think 3 years..

Unless you are over 35 yrs with diminishing test levels...

Comment #1

Good post. Must have took a lot of effort. Again as Andy says though I think a higher minimum...

Comment #2

...your probablly right, in an ideal world, but here's what I was thinking...I wrote this for the average person, assuming in his mid twenties who has been lifting for 6-9 months and just hit a plateau and started thinking about the gear...they won't want to wait that much longer to start and will just say Fvck it and start jucing right away if we tell them to wait three years...this way, they may see the value of waiting a little longer and comprimise their natural potential less...make sense?..

Comment #3

Jay great post, very interesting and enjoyable read..

I will put a link to this post on the hompage and maybe the register page..

So new members will read it..

Thanks steve..

Comment #4

Thanks for the props and the link steve! 8)..

Comment #5

May I add to this thread quickly for anyone that is planning a first cycle and got bored reading that post and skipped to the bottom..


Finally if you have to ask are you old enough to use AAS..


Comment #6

Nice addition YG! Thanks!...I wonder how many will skip the lengthy post and just drop to this to be disappointed 8) .....

Comment #7

Have added this to the main post because it's definitely deserving..

Comment #8

Great post.

Taught me a lot of things!.

Not that I'm aiming to use steroids but I didnt really have much of an idea about them.. until now.


Comment #9

Glad of the info. really got my attention.

Never thought there was so many risks in takin steroids..

Made me more cautious of anything to do with steroids now..


Phil. :twisted:..

Comment #10

Thanks for all that advice Jay. I'm new to the site cause a friend said this was a good place to bounce questions off people who know about this sort of thing. Always better safe than sorry eh...

Comment #11

Thanks for that 12 weeks of test it is then, one more thing do you take 500mg in one shot on the same day each week or break it up?..

Comment #12

You can do either most break it up into t shots of 250mg...

Comment #13

Yeah great post jay I was tempted but alot of people in here have given me some good tips and arranged my programme for me too.

Really makes you think.

Great stuff..

Comment #14

In response to rules five and six doing your own research..

I was told about a book called Anabolic 2000 has anyone heard of it.

Is that a good place to start with research.

By the way very good sticky , job well done.

I will slow down.


But I like to skip to the bottom. lol...

Comment #15

There's Anabolic 2008 now mate. Llewellyn I think wrote it...

Comment #16

Great pre-course on the tumultuous and tedious process in bodybuilding and gear enhanced gains...

Comment #17

Have 'Anabolics 2004' and 'The Works'..

Personally prefer The Works as I just find the layout of the book better, also it's UK biased not USA which is nice..

Comment #18

Hi, cheers for the thread, I'm only 20 atm, built like a sh!t house for my age, but reached that point where I can't really do that much more to up my gains, Anytime I aint studying/training I'm researching, it's scary the amount of wrong info out there tbh, I never know if what I am doing is benefitting me or not.I dont have a mentor as such, my mates arn't into the sport, or any sport really, been just me and a whole web full of bad innacurate info that even when it looks okay, I still have wearies when applying it to a regime whether it be nutrition/training. Anyhows, for the past 6 months, like alot of "newbies" to this game I've been thinking of steroids quite a bit. However I think after reading this thread i'll wait off a year or 2 until I think again about them.

Thanks jay.


Comment #19

Just joined up to this site and this was one of the first threads I read and thought it was a great post so thanx jay top read..

Comment #20

I registered just to say wow!! that's some of the best advice I have ever seen on this topic. Thanks :-)..

Comment #21

I had no clue about steroids in anyway until I read this post ... excellent info..

Comment #22

Hey appreciate the info it's hard to find some people that will be honest and straight to the point plus good info again I needed it..

Comment #23


"7. Your first cycle should be simple and clean. 500mg/week of Testosterone Enanthate for 12 weeks followed by 21 days of PCT. PCT should be like this:.

Clomid: Day one, 300mg.

Day 2-10, 100mg.

Day 11-21, 50mg.

Nolvadex: Day 1-14, 40mg.

Day 15-30, 20mg.


Nolvadex: Day 1-21, 40mg".

First post, new to the board.

Some good info you posted. But number 7's a bit misleading..

Heres why:.

** with a 12 week test cycle of that ester or cyp etc. you need start pct 2 weeks after last inj. not straight after..

**nolva should never be run higher than 20mgs, this is more than enough. It increases endogenous T by 150% and interacts more adequately with breast tissue receptors to prevent gyno.

** nolva and clomid cause cancer and so OTC additions such as a natty test booster are a good idea - as is keeping dose low of serms. However not one that raises free test. As this has been shown to cause suppression upon cessation..

** a 3 week pct is too short for a 12 week cycle. It should be more like 4-5 weeks.

And nolva should be tapered down - not run @ 40mg throughout as you suggested in one option. It has the potential to cause a rebound effect in regards to estrogen. Meaning if you dont taper down IE: 20/20/10/10 then you run the risk of gyno. As your E will be high and receptors in breasts will not have nolva interacting with them.

** there has been much debate over clomids effectiveness at raising endogenous T. It is so heavily disputed that most ppl cease to use it - bc nolva is proven to work in this way..

**didnt read much past 7. TBH bc it stood out lol. I dont mean to seem arrogant and rude - not my intention at all. But the members do deserve to be in the know. And that wasnt a great suggestion at all. Again I apologize for being upfront but sharing is what these boards are about and the info you shared needed clearing up..

Again I didnt read if you mentioned HCG but.....

**HCG should be used in most cycles such as this suggesting test one. Start 4 weeks in @ 250ius twice per week. This prevents excessive testicular atrophy and aids in post cycle recovery. For more info search swales hcg protocol on google (or bing (: ) and that has the whole run down - words from a hrt specialist. Do not use hcg post cycle...bad idea.

Sorry again for the abruptness of this response, first post out of the way tho. Looking forward to reading what you guys here have to share in other threads..



PS - some1 asked about inj. the 500mgs per week. Split it into 2 doses as it helps to have a more stable T concentration lvls. IE: 250mg mon/thurs.

This varies according to ester however. but for Test E and C this applies...

Comment #24

Excellent post soul and dogfox!.

This is a large research topic and most of what I needed to know was in here. And as you say it is everyones opinion of what and how, just trying to be as safe as possible and this thread was well worth a read..

Still a little more research required by myself yet though. I seem to be on the right track though...

Comment #25

Top post, with some good info in there....I have seen these cycles on certain sites & they dont say anything about PCT....your right about research..

Comment #26

Brilliant post Jay, thanks v much for doing that, Stickied !.

Anybody new to the site asking about steroids will now be shown this post as a first point of call..


Comment #27

Yeah good post, only point I disagree on is the 'minimum of 18 months' lifting. I think 3 years..

Unless you are over 35 yrs with diminishing test levels...

Comment #28

This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.


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