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My first question is: Is it possible for match.com to be wrong about a user's activity, saying they were active when they .

My next question is: Trying to decide whether or not to ask this lady out. We work together which I know is a no no but where we work I hardley see her unless I actually go out of my way. We also attend the same church but once again I'd still have to go out of my way to see her. So it wouldn't be as bad if we started something that did not work out. This will be long so brace yourselve. It started out like this.

I got there late and I went take my seat but realized years of weight training and supplements had made me too large to fit comfortably in the desk I was attempting to sit. It was obvious I was having trouble and then I heard a voice say you can sit over here. I ignored it and said I would be fine. I sat down and I noticed who had said it. The lady was beautiful.

She seemed quiet at first. Later on that day I found a way to end up sitting behind her. And managed to work up the courage to talk to her. Once I got her talking she was quite talkative which I like. A few days later I saw her again in the hall looking at a map and I struck up another conversation with her and I began to fall for her even more.

She would wlk by me as fast as possible get my attention wave and take off with out giving me a chance to talk to her. She did this for a week straight I thought she hated me. Then that Sunday I tried out a new church and guess who was a regular member. When she saw me there she hugged me and aske dthe group I was with if we were doing anything later. We had to leave but the next couple weeks straight we all went out to eat lunch together.

And I thought thinks were going good so I e-mail her a few times and she responded quickly. Then in one e-mail I asked her if she would like to have lunch with me one day during the week. She said yes at first but then the xcuse started coming. At first I thought she was just avoiding eating lunch with me but after talking with her I found out that her excuses are probably legit. She is taking two classes right now to keep her certification and job and she does worry a lot so I can see how she might want to skip going out for lunch until things get easier for her.

The I sent a few more e-mail which all got responses and then I sent my phone number for some reason (and it was a kegit one) and I got no response again. So I was ready to give up I was certain she was just avoiding the issue. So I sent one last e-mail saying "I guess we won't ever get a chnace to eat lunch together but I do understand it was great talking with you the other day you are truely an amazing woman and I promise not to bother about lunch any more see at church and God bless" So I got a very short e-mail back from her but couldn't remember what it said because I was a little disappointed. Whatever it was it had little to do with a response to what I wrote. So I went a few day without e-mailing her and at 11:59 one night I get a message in my school account from her.

I go hang out with her during lunch a few times and it seems like things are going great. I think mybe a few days later she got my e-mail about the dinner that a sent a week prior and invites to dinner at her house along with other people from the church. I accept but somehow it does not work out so we couldn't do that but she invited me to a barbeque at a church memebers house. When I get there she acts like I don't exist for the first 30 minutes then when I caught up with her started trying to talk to her people kept coming up trying to talk to me. And went they did she would either vanish or stick around and listen very intently to my conversation with whomever until I started to speak and then she would turn away.

Right up until we were both getting ready to leave and then she stands by me. And at this point I have really fallen for this lady I wanted to drop to a knee and propose right then but I kept my cool. This made me feel as if she wanted no part of me and that I was getting on her nerves so I decided it was time to leave her alone. And after a few days of me not e-mailing her I get another late night e-mail. Now this one bothered me because I was just getting over her and now her she goes senting another e-mail asking how I'm doing and all.

So the past few days have been awesome i've gotten a chance to talk to her one on one and she seems really talkative and shares a lot with me. And recently she has started doing something she had never done before she is now asking about me. Usually when we would talk she would just tell me about herself but now she seem more interesting in what is going on with me. Sometime I look into her eyes and find myself lost and have to catch myself before I make her uncomfortable. I'm not sure why ahe acts the way she does around me and whenever I decide I don't have a chance she always does something to make me think that I do.

I really really really like this girl she amazes me her passion for her job and her love of the Lord. But I don't want to complicate her life. In decenber her class will be over and I can wait till then but my question is does it seem like I have a chance?..

Comments (47)

Your question was: Is it possible for match.com to be wrong about a user's activity, saying they were active when they .

The path of love and happiness is full of risks both in unrequited love and unexpected joys.  And the thing is, you can avoid some of the pain and hurt by playing it safe. But you also avoid the joys that come from being blessed. Being passive is when you let others dictate your actions. being proactive is when you make choices and take action..

Since you are a Church goer - I refer you back to the book of Ruth. Boaz was deliberate and intentional in his interest in Ruth. She never did anything one way or another. It seems that you only show your interest when she shows hers. That isn't being deliberate - it's being passive. If you want her, you have to let her know in your actions and worlds. Ask for waht you want in this situation -otherwise, you'll continue on this merrygoround..

If you like the lady, be bold and let her know what you'd like - to date using Match.com and get to know her. Regardless of how things may go, YOU have set yourself clearly on a path. Indecision is not endearing. Women like men who know what they want and what they have to offer. If you feel you have something to offer the lady, then offer. If you don't believe in yourself or feel that you do, then take yourself out of the game.

Best wishes..

Toni..

Comment #1

It sounds like she is playing some games with you...the coy and hard to get type of games.  I'm sure you have a chance but you'll have to stick your neck out if you want to go out with her.  And you have to determine if you like the type of person who plays games to get your attention...

Comment #2

Here is my plan, let me know if you think this is a good idea. I'm going to ask her out but I think I should ask her if she wants to go out after she finishes her classes in December. She seems so stressed out and I don't want add to it. But I think when I get back into town on Monday I'm going to ask her if she would like to go out once she finises her classes. I feel a big part of why she acts so strange is because of what is riding on her finishing these classes. I don't have her phone number or else I'd ask her out right now and I don't want to do it over e-mail I've been warned against it.

I thank you for you help..

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Comment #3

Don't decide what would or would not add stress to her - going out could be a stress reliever. She is the best judge of that - your role is to offer, hers is to accept at this stage.  Just ask her "May I take to you _________  sometime soon?" Ask what she prefers relative to time. And then follow through on what you agree to. Get her number and also ask if you can call her periodically if there is a delay in going out..

You are right about email - it's a good fill-in but for the initial stages of romance and dating, it should not be used to set up dates. IT is too passive.

Yes, you are being more proactive and deliberate!.

Good luck!.

Toni..

Comment #4

Next time I see her I'm asking her out, thanks you...

Comment #5

I've got one more question for you. I've been getting a lot of advice from various people about dating (online dating with Match.com) and it seems that they are right but I am hoping they are not. I've been told that girls won't usually date using Match.com the nice guy. They just want them as friends. And it seems right as I think back on my life the only two times I could have ever been seen a jerk women wanted me. But when I was my usual nice self I'd always lose the girl to a jerk.

Everyone say thats what I should do make her feel like it's a privelege to go out with me. But how can I do that to someone I really care about. My life is hectic enough that if I had to I could play that game (because if it weren't hectic I'd want to spend every free second with her) After becoming a Christain my life changed and I always wanted to put others ahead of myself. I wouldn't say that I'm a "nice guy" I mean I'm no push over I couldn't be with my other job title but I place the concerns of other above my own and it seems as if that is not attractive to most women. The guys who I see getting are not at all like that.

At least the ones I've talked to. So I guess what i'm asking is whether or not there is any substance to what these guys are telling me...

Comment #6

The short answer IMHO is yes but not for the reasons you think..

I read an article on line (I can't remember where though!) about the ways men and women date using Match.com and choose mates. It was like a relationship (thru Match.com) ladder. Women see men in one of two ways - as a potential love interest or a friend. These are 2 separate ladders - and some 'nice' men - men who don't want to appear as coming on too strong, etc - often find themselves on the friendship ladder and think that by behaving in certain ways which equates to playing it safe in some ways will get them transferred to the lover ladder - but women don't tend to work that way..

I will use my experiences as examples - there are men that I had instant chemistry with - my current BF is one - and others that I liked but perhaps the chemistry wasnt as strong - the thing that may have tipped the scales one way or another for me was if he showed me his 'passion' - (I don't mean by acting like a letch but by being deliberate and intentional..  - he was willing to let me know that he was attracted - and how - and he took a chance that I would be receptive. That he lived life to the fullest and enjoyed it no matter what. That is what I'm getting at - he was willing to risk being turned down.

Those 'nice' men that I dated and who ultimately did nothing for me chemistry wise were the ones who seemed to behave in ways that 'wouldn't scare me off' - does this make sense. They wanted to kiss me but didn't ask, didn't try and I knew it. They weren't willing to risk it for whatever reason. This is what being deliberate means to me - if you want something, go for it with gusto and accept what will happen.

I truly think this is the major draw for 'bad boys' - their willingness to risk - though it's not always in a good way.  this has been true for me in previous relationships, as I have a strong sense of play and adventure. I want someone who is willing to take a chance on whatever. that sense of passion comes through along with being a good man. .

And women want to know their men feel passionate, about them as well as life, otherwise, it may seem like they are boring - and therefore, life with them would be boring. If you try to woo a woman strictly by being Mr. Dependable without ever showing her a glimpse of your passion and fun side, you get put in the Friend category.  I have a good man who has a very passionate side to him, he is also very serious about his responsibilities. This sense of passion and playfulness came across very quickly when we first met. .

Its all about the passion she perceives in a man. And unfortunately, many women equate the rollercoaster emotions that come with bad boys as passion - when in fact, passion has little to do with - it's the extremes that she thinks is real love . Less emotionally mature women (been there myself) will choose those extremes, like a rollercoaster, over a stable ride because of the [perceived thrills. As she matures and grows, she comes to understand that a steady ride that is consistent in passion and love and reliability is much more thrilling over the long haul than a 30 second joy ride that leaves you breathless. Its basically thrill seeking behavior..

So, this is why I suggested that you be deliberate and intentional with your interest so she can see you as a potential love partner not just a friend.  Someone who enjoys life and wants to show her that too. Because unless or until she sees the passion you have for life and love, she's not going to see how you will show passion to her..

 .

Toni..

Comment #7

Thanks for the advise and I know I said that was my last question but I have a few more. Would it be okay to ask for her phone number over e-mail. Second she loves nature and hiking and things like that and she knows that I certainly don't. If asked out and our date using Match.com was a hiking trip would she see that as me being that nice guy again or as being passionate about her?..

Comment #8

My advice is to just be yourself.  And hopefully "yourself" is not a jerk.  If a girl wants an assh*le, is that really the kind of girl you want anyway??  That is not a quality female who wants that.  That is an insecure female who doesn't value herself and accepts being treated like crap, you catch my drift?  My boyfriend is not in any way a jerk and I love him more than anythiiiiiing LOL  So there's more proof for you that not all girls go for bad boys.   ..

Comment #9

TONI!  This is the best post I have ever read.  Soo well-said! And sooooo so unbelievably true.  My bf acts exactly like this - extremely passionate.  When he kisses me, he doesn't care who's around.  It's like I'm the only person in the world to him.  But he's not clingy or anything because he has so much going for himself (he's in school, in a soccer team, in a band, etc).  So it is his passion for his life *and* for me that makes him so attractive.  So you are totally correct in your post.  Well, now I am rambling, I'm sorry LOL  Anyway, he's just amazing.  I am really lucky.     ..

Comment #10

Is email the only way to ask her for her number?  Is there any way you could do it in person?  If a guy I knew could have done it in person, it would bother me if he did it over email.  I would think he was a wuss.  I'm just being honest.  Also, I would not take her hiking if you don't like hiking.  This is something you do for a girlfriend already, where you love her so you would compromise and do things she likes to do even if you're not crazy about it.  You guys aren't there yet.  I would make it safe and just do dinner or something like this.....

Comment #11

It is right now because I'm 2000 miles away. I can wait til I get home but I just really wanted to talk to her. I'm on a trip surrounded by women and all I can think about is her. Oh well, on Monday I'm going for broke...

Comment #12

Yes yes yes   Women like confidence and boldness.  Ask in person!  I think this is much better.  Then you will get an immediate response and you won't have to drive yourself crazy in caase she doesn't answer your email back right away and all that messy business... In person is always always better, imo.  Viel Glck! (good luck!)  ..

Comment #13

<<Yes yes yes   Women like confidence and boldness.  Ask in person!  >>.

Absolutely. Play to win. Don't play to 'not lose'. There is a huge difference. As far as doing things you aren't crazy about right away - that is trying to impress her and will ultimately backfire. SAve your compromises on such things for later.

Do things you both enjoy and once you've established a dating (online dating with Match.com) routine, stretch yourselves - both of you..

Toni..

Comment #14

I agree. Be clear and open about what you want. Good luck.

,..

Comment #15

Tomorrow is the big day ladies please keep me in your prayers...

Comment #16

I asked her and she said yes. The most wonderful girl on the planet is going out with me tomorrow. Any advise? She has really started to open up to me, should I do the same? I asked her out today and we don't go out until thurday should I stop by and visit tomorrow or should I wait till thursday to see her. How can I tell if she was really happy about going. She didn't show a whole lot of emotion and at first she said she was busy then she checked her schedule and said she was free. I almost did a backflip.

Thanks guys...

Comment #17

Whoa - you are WAY over analyzing here - and all that will do is make things more difficult for both of you.   Stop idolizing her - becasue she is human and imperfect like all of us. If you continue to idolize her, you aren't being grounded and could miss things that are important.

As far as was she happy about your date? HUH? She said yes didn't she?.

Hon, confidence is what is attractive for men and women. Its fine to be excited - but it's just a date using Match.com - not a pathway to marriage. Take it one step at a time. Don't come on too strong - that's as bad as not being intentional. Find a good middle ground. Take what she says toyou at face value and stop questioning every thing! Just enjoy..

Toni..

Comment #18

Whoa there, Nelly.  Back up a step.  This is just a date.  And like Toni said, don't put her on this pedastal as the greatest girl on the planet.  She's got no where to go but down from there because no one is perfect and no one deserves the adoration that you are piling on her - NO ONE.  That's a lot of pressure on her and on you to force this to work..

Just take everything one step at a time.  Step 1 - you asked her out.  Step 2 - she said yes.  Step 3 - have a nice date using Match.com and enjoy yourself realizing that this is ONE date using Match.com - NOT an insta-relationship.  Step 4 - ask her on date using Match.com 2 if date using Match.com 1 goes well.... see where this is going?  Don't put the cart before the horse and start freaking out and making this something it's not.  Be happy and excited, but go into this with realistic expectations that it's just one date using Match.com right now.  Let things unfold at the pace they will..

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Comment #19

 I'm gonna add something for you, that I wish to be helpful..

 Here's a for instance. When you're hungry do you ask yourself whether or not you should eat? No, right. Why? It's because you HAVE to eat!!! You don't question it's rationale, you just DO IT..

 This is the same stance you should have with women. If you want to take her out... TAKE HER OUT. Don't give HER excuses as to why or why she won't. Why would she NOT want to meet with you? You're a great guy with ALOT to offer.

 Another suggestion. When asking someone out, I don't recommend you say, 'do you WANT to get lunch with me', instead say, 'Look, I'm going to grab a bite to eat. You should tag along. It will be SOOO amazing! I know of this SUPER fancy restaurant and you absolutely MUST try it!" And go to Taco Bell, or where ever. You have most likely PEAKED her interest, and as long as you don't tell her where you're going initially, she will be DYING to go to with you..

 When we as men talk convincingly and with PASSION about something, women WILL respond to just about EVERYTHING you say. Women respond TO emotion.  There are SOOOO many things I could write about, I'm gonna give you the 'basic' tid bid. BE PASSIONATE. Meaning... that you will do anything to achieve or that you have a STRONG interest in something. ANYTHING.

Talk with feeling and CONVICTION. Women LOVE men that are NOT afraid to be emotional (in a passionate way) about something they LOVE. Trust me....

 The point is, is to not ASK. NEVER ASK. Some women will probably SCREAM at the fact that I say this. They're NOT dating (online dating with Match.com) women either. WE ARE. The point is to be DOING what YOU want to do with your life, and it would be a benefit to HER, if she joins you.

She's human just like you.

 Here's an example that I might say to a woman I want to hang out with. "Hey, have you been to Taco Bell/whatever place? OMG!!! It's AMAZING! I soooooo LOVE IT!! You HAVE to come with me! If not, you're a dork. It'll be AWESOME... you're going!! So... Tomorrow at 8 p.m. we're going." As cheesy as this sounds, I'm willing to bet that she'd respond.

There are other ways to do this, that work for YOUR mentality and comfort level. I'm just giving an example here off the top of my head..

 She maybe 'sensing' your uncertainty and that's SOMETIMES why WOMEN make excuses or flake. .

 I'm pretty sure there are more deeply rooted issues going on, then just the fact this woman won't go to lunch with you. I've been through this myself and was able to come out ahead of the 'game'. So, I speak with compassion and a knowledge for the 'game'..

 If you have questions, as a man myself, I will offer whatever it is you may need or want to know. I'm putting the ball in your court. Feel free to ask anytime..

 Be well....

 Z..

Comment #20

Yeah I probably should have put an LOL at the end of that last post. Or else how could you know I was joking. No I really do like her but after the actual date using Match.com I know it could change. She might say something crazy like she doesn't like the Miami Hurricanes ad then it would be over. What I should have just said was thank you for all your help. I was so nervous because I'm trying to find a good girl now and that is new for me. Every since I accepted Christ I've had a complicated social life...

Comment #21

<<I was so nervous because I'm trying to find a good girl now and that is new for me. Every since I accepted Christ I've had a complicated social life.>>.

I would think it would simplify it - esp if you are 100% crystal clear about what kind of woman you want and what kind of relationship (thru Match.com) you want. The complications usually arise when we aren't sure about what it is we do want.

Basically, if you know you want prime rib and that is te only thing that will satisfy your hunger, then why would you hang out in hamburger joints? Same thing with women and relationships - if you know what kind of woman you want then it is pointless to be with those who do not fit the qualities you want - it can take a date using Match.com or so maybe more to really find this out - but that still shouldn't be complicated.

I do hope you find what you are looking for..

Toni..

Comment #22

LOL  If you said that to me I'd probably look at you funny.  Definitely I agree with the assertive type, but maybe leave out the fast-food part.  Just say, "You're going out with me.  Tomorrow night.  8 o'clock".  That's sexy.  Taco Bell is NOT sexy, it's lame. ..

Comment #23

Oh my goodness... I'm sorry, but alot of what you say is just so off LOL  But now I can see from the guy's point of view.  There is no "game" with women.  Whatever "game" you think you have down, haha, you are fooling yourself and *real* females.. quality females.. will see right through it.  Maybe there's a game with guys, but not with women.  She either sees you as a friend or does not.  That's it. ..

Comment #24

I'm sorry, but that would be a HUGE turnoff for me if a guy tells me that I HAVE to or MUST do something with him.  I hate, hate, hate when a guy I barely know is telling me what to do - "Oh you should go to this place."  or "Oh I've been here, you'd love it.  You should go".  Seriously.  Hate that.  Also, even if it's meant in a joking manner, a guy telling me I'm a dork or I'm stupid for NOT going with him to Taco Bell or where ever would NOT endear him to me and instead would make me turn around and never speak to the guy again.  I am an independent, mature woman who does not appreciate being treated like a child and if a man did that, boy howdy.  No way..

There is a difference between confidence and coming across as a jerk.  Emotion is one thing, telling me that I am a dork if I don't do this with you and that I HAVE to do something is quite another.  It wouldn't pique my interest, I wouldn't be DYING to go with you, it would make me run in the other direction as fast as I could..

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Comment #25

I agree wholeheartedly! .

I get teh gist of the intention behind that post but there is much better way - such as "I'd like to take you out tomorrow night" it's neither a question or a command. It is a statement of what he wants. and I then get to say yea or nay accordingly.

I don't respond well to authoritative people - TELLING me what I am going to do is the least effective way to get me to do anything, unless of course you are my boss or similar - and even then, they rarely 'tell' me to do things - they make it a statement of what they want.

Toni..

Comment #26

Exactly.  And if a guy said something like "I'd like to take you out tomorrow night" or something similar, I would probably grin and say "Really, now?" and be much more intrigued than if some guy TOLD me what I was going to do and how stupid I was if I didn't go with him.  I don't take to being insulted, even if it's jokingly..

As an adult, I don't take well to being told that I have to do something - that's part of being an adult.  Even my boss and work colleagues make requests of me and others rather than telling me what I have to do.  If that came from a guy... he'd be a big huge NEXT!.

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Comment #27

 I wrote to vexer, but if you'd take a moment and read what I wrote, I wish to 'shed' some light. If you would, try to keep an open mind while you read this.

 Take care....

 Z..

Comment #28

 There's no need to be sorry. I can appreciate your thought, that you may see from the 'guys' point of view. That's fine. But I must NOT be put in with MOST guys. I have learned things that MOST guys are completely OBLIVIOUS to. I've studied TONS about women, have practice with, talked to, and spend 1000's of hours on UNDERSTANDING women's needs and mentalities and even...

I've studied and have learned TONS about women/relationships/psychology/sexuality..

 If only women would take the time to TRULY understand men. Most of you are CLUELESS, when it comes to understanding men. Sure some know the 'basic', sex, food, sleep, but it's actually quite deeper than that..

The expectations of men to 'accommodate' YOUR/WOMEN'S needs is pretty selfish. I wish women knew how to 'accommodate' their OWN needs first. But... unfortunately most do not. If you dis-agree, I want you to explain how YOU accommodate YOUR needs.

 What you've said, about there is no 'game' with women, is wrong. Women LOVE games. The games that have been played with you, obviously are the WRONG kinds of games. The lying, deceiving, un-trust are NOT games. Games are FUN and meant to be playful. The other is just Low quality guys, doing what they think is right.

 I think, for you it's been thought of in another mindset with. To me, 'game' is having an understanding of women, KNOWING what works and knowing what they WANT from a man. Again, MOST women. There are exceptions to EVERYTHING.        .

 So in my experiences and what my g/f experiences, my 'game' is pretty tight. I'm NOT the best ever, I am pretty understanding of her needs as a woman, emotionally & sexually. You may say whatever you want initially, but if you could talk with my g/f of the pleasures we've shared together, you may re-think your thoughts. Become a balanced man/leader takes time and knowledge..

 I wish you the best....

 Z..

Comment #29

Your lines might work on women who need to be lead, they do not work on women who do the leading. And there are more of us than you might think. that said, I know the difference in playfulness and 'being told what to do' - if I'm interested, playfulness works. Commands never do except for those in need of commanding.

I do find your very long justification amusing.  And yes, I'd take your pepsi challenge.....I have no doubt who'd come out on top..

Toni..

Comment #30

 I love the quick response!.

 If in fact YOU take the LEAD in your relationships with men, that's fine. You're of the MINORITY of what's desired by feminine/submissive woman.

 My justification is b/c I have passion for understanding relationships and WISH everyone had some QUALITY knowledge of the subject. But, the fact is, is this isn't true... unfortunately.

 You know who'd come out on top of our 'Pepsi Challenge' do you? I would LOVE to oblige you. Do you play fair?.

 I have a question for you Toni, if you don't mind. How many men do YOU know that have a SOLID understanding of not only YOUR needs, but the needs of women in general? I mean... a MAN that really 'GET'S IT'. He knows women as well as they know themselves.

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 Z..

Comment #31

Not Toni, but my experience is that a guy who thinks he knows the needs of "women in general" doesn't know much..

Everyone's different and applying a general rule to an individual isn't going to get you far.  I'd much rather be with a man who spends time getting to know MY needs rather than assuming that he already knows because he knows the needs of "most women".   .

Re the whole asking vs commanding thingnot only would the command thing not float my boat, I'd be wondering and thinking, does this guy just want to be my taco buddy or what?  He must just like me as a friend, otherwise he'd ask me out on something I can recognize as a proper date..

Sheri..

Comment #32

 It's amazing to me, that people have a hard time believing that someone could have a good understanding of women. It's NOT rocket surgery. I chose a route in MY life, to obtain knowledge of women, and have applied it VERY successfully. I wish more people could. Some think that I may be 'arrogant' by my knowledge, and I'm sure these people have no idea how to nurture a woman's fundamental needs or their own, for that matter.

 And who wouldn't want a man to spend time to understand HER needs? Again, it's NOT rocket surgery. What man wouldn't want his woman to understand HIS needs?.

 I hope that some of you don't pass judgement, based on the fact that I'm a man. It's already been done, and I expect, until these woman are around me, will continue to do so.

 I'm not talking directly at you, northwestwanderer, I'm directing this at those who ARE being judgmental. I can only speak from MY life and MY experiences. OBVIOUSLY. Just like you are speaking from YOURS.

 I hope that you all are in happy, healthy, and BALANCED relationships, from which you give your opinions from. I know I am..

 Take care, all....

 Z..

Comment #33

Quite frankly, I find the odds of a man who prefers submissive women to  really 'understand' what makes  dominant woman tick to be very slim at best. They don't think the same or respond to the same things. Perhaps you do prefer dominant women? And if you do, then you would know that commanding them doesn't work and isn't tolerated.

If you indeed are such a master at understanding women, why then are you not teaching the rest of the world how to also reach a better level of understanding?  Seems to me that you'd be the richest man in the world with that - a world reknowned expert....

Methinks you think too highly of your own opinion to remotely 'get' that women are different though yes, they do have similiar general traits that may over lap.  One size does not fit all - But since you understand women so well you already know that..

Regards,.

Toni..

Comment #34

If you have a general comprehension of how to treat a woman well (which really just entails being a good person to them, so you are correct -  it is NOT rocket science! ... and you meant rocket SCIENCE, by the way.. not rocket SURGERY LOL  You're so funny.  You could have said "It's not neurosurgery" .. or spinal surgery is equally challenging.. LMAO) then I think that is wonderful.  However, you might want to refrain from calling it a "game".  Although I understand your definition of it is playful and flirtatious, it still comes off negative and superficial. .

Edited 11/1/2007 10:00 pm ET by allieshmatt..

Comment #35

I kinda feel like I started this. I have met some girls who like to be bossed around and told what to do but I'm not really interested in girls like that. They girl I went out with tonight was sweet and very independent. She didn't want to let me open the door for her or pay for her meal. I did anyway though. We had a great time and we talk for about two hours.

I'm not sure if this is something I should just go out and say. Thanks to everybody for the help...

Comment #36

<< it is NOT rocket science! ... and you meant rocket SCIENCE, by the way.. not rocket SURGERY LOL >>.

I think zlibby knew that ... combining the cliches of 'rocket science' and 'brain surgery' is aka a MIXED METAPHOR.  ;-).

(A mixed metaphor is one that leaps from one identification to a second identification that is inconsistent with the first one. I.e,   "He stepped up to the plate and grabbed the bull by the horns," where two commonly used metaphoric grounds for highlighting the concept of "taking action" are confused to create a nonsensical image). .

To zlibby, as you can tell, there are some pretty smart chicks here ... and while it's GREAT to have another male voice on the boards ... my take on the arguments presented so far is this: .

While both sexes can do their very best to understand each other ... a man can never understand a woman as well as a woman can understand herself and other women ... and likewise, a woman will never understand a man as well as he understands himself and other men.  And to think otherwise is flawed, inflated in terms of what you can *possibly* achieve in terms of understanding.    .

We are fundamentally wired differently, and as such, you will *never* be able to understand women as well as women can understand themselves and each other.   I'm certainly not going to say that I understand men better than they do! ... (though I may at times THINK I do) ... at the end of the day, I'm rational enough to realize that biologically, it's just not possible to know the opposite sex THAT well.

Bottom line: I'll never walk a mile in a man's shoes nor will you ever walk a mile in a woman's shoes.  So, how could possibly know a woman (or womankind) better than she knows herself?.

Anyway... in addition to the needs of food, sleep, sex ... at a core level, in relationships, men want to be accepted and appreciated for who they are.  .

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.  ;-)..

Comment #37

<<They girl I went out with tonight was sweet and very independent. She didn't want to let me open the door for her or pay for her meal. I did anyway though>..

Is this the same girl from your original OP? I'm sorry but, and this is just MY opinion, a lady who doesn't want a man to oepn doors for her or pay for a date using Match.com he invited her on is not truly interested in being treated special. Independence has nothing to do with it. Its about believing she deserves to be treated well - in any situation. this behavior sends a signal of ' just friends'.

Independence - the real kind, is not threatened by acts of courtesy or kindness or assistance from any one - esp. men. It allows room for it and accepts it graciously. I don't get women who think that this is some great thing - not allowing men to do these things. These are usually the same women who later on whail and whine about why her man doesn't do nice things for her like buy flowers, etc. Well, duh! She taught him from teh get-go that she didn't want to be treated as special - for whatever reasons.

Sorry - I digress.

Suggestions on how to show her you have good intentions? Well, for your part, always keep your word. Be courteous and respectful. Its up to her to accept that you do have good intentions - but, again, just my opinion, she's indicated she doesn't want special treatmetn from you and/or wants to see how high you'll jump to prove your interest. If you wish to continue to see her and get to know her, be who you are always and don't play games. Its up to her to see the quality in you and respond in an adult manner..

Toni..

Comment #38

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Comment #39

Hmm, I'm with ToniI would get a "just wants to be friends" vibe from that as well.  I'm very independent but I love being courtedbut only by guys I'm interested in romantically.  I won't accept courtship gestures if I'm not interested in them or only interested in them as friends.  But time will tell whether that's the case with hershe just may not appreciate courtship gestures. .

So did you ask her out for another date?.

And I also agree with Toni that you don't TELL her your intentions are honorable, you SHOW her with your actions and with making sure that your words and actions are 100% consistent..

Sheri..

Comment #40

 I totally LOVE your sarcasm. The use of sarcasm is a DISTINCT sign of insecurity. So the fact that you have given me a barrage of sarcasm, speaks volumes of your inner feelings about yourself and your life.

 I'm just hopeful that someday, you meet a man that can assist you with your life needs. Sarcasm will limit your success with a High Quality Man..

 I wish you well, Toni.

 Z..

Comment #41

Sorry, I'm with the others.  I get a "friends vibe" from her actions too.  If she doesn't want you to open her doors or pay for her meal, that's not usually independence, that is "back up on the friends bus, buster!".   For me, if I have no romantic interest in a guy, I will pay for my own drink, meal, etc. .

To let her know your intentions are honorable, you need to behave honorably.  Be respectful of her and her feelings - it sounds as if you are, but to me actions speak much louder than words.  Don't TELL her, but show her by your actions that you are on the up and up. .

But I think before this goes too much further, you need to find out what she's looking for as far as a relationship (thru Match.com) goes in general.  It's great you had a great time and good conversation, but you need to clear up if she is in a relationship (thru Match.com) place.  This should be a general conversation about what she's looking for rather than what she's looking for from YOU.  She may just be looking for friendship right now or not be looking for something serious or not date using Match.com people she works with... but a clear concise talk about what your relationship (thru Match.com) goals are in general will let you know if this is worth pursuing as more than a friendship or not..

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Comment #42

I asked her if we could do this again sometime and she said yeah and I'm sure she will. But the whole idea of being stuck in the friends category frustrates me. First I asked her if she would be free on Thursday night she said she would check her schedule when she said she was I said, "Can I take you out for dinner" She said sure we can do that. The entire date using Match.com lasts about 2hours and it was non stop conversation, now she did do much of the talking and didn't ask me a whole lot of questions. She laugh at my jokes and never broke eye contact. But when I went to pay for the meal she said ina firm almost angry voice, "you don't have to do that" It was reall almost as if she was offended.Same words out of her mouth when I mentioned the fact that I liked to open the door for ladies.

When I called for directions to get to her house she seemed happy to hear from me. The way she reacted when I tried to pay at first made me think it was a bad date. But just as I was getting ready to say I was though she texts me right before she goes to bed to ask if I got home okay.If she just wants to be friends why won't she just leave me alone not that I want that but she is confusing me so much. I don't know whether to say fine we are just friends or to ask her if there is a chance of becoming more. If there is a chance I'd wait as long as it took but if not I'd start looking elsewhere..

Comment #43

She barely knows you and after a first date using Match.com is hardly a time to ask a woman if she sees more happening between the two of you.  That will send a skittish woman running for the hills.  Again, take this one step at a time and rather than jumping to whether or not this MUST be a relationship, how about you ask her out again with no expectation other than you will go out with her again.  See how things go on date using Match.com 2.  If things go well, again do not think weeks or months down the road to "SHE MUST BE MY GIRLFRIEND AND MARRY ME AND HAVE MY BABIES!".  Instead, if date using Match.com 2 goes well, think about date using Match.com 3. .

The basic gist here is do not get the cart before the horse, here.  Take things one step at a time.  You may realize at some point that you do not want to pursue a relationship (thru Match.com) with her.  You never know.  But if you take this as it goes rather than forcing what you right now see as the ideal end in mind, then I think you will relax and enjoy yourself a lot more..

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Comment #44

I would happen a guess that she doesn't realize how her actions come across. Many women don't when they do this - but the clear message is 'I don't want you to treat me special"  that could be driven by her not 'feeling' it for you on a romantic level or it could simply be insecurity - she doesn't believe she deserves to be treated special by anyone. I have been in that place - and once I began to realize what I was doing, it took concerted effort to retrain my thinking - and sometimes the habit of DIY kicked in. Now I truly appreciated the courtesies and kindnesses directed my way by everyone..

If you think the lady is worth time and effort then I suggest having an open discussion with her about this - let her know that you like to treat the ladies you date with special regard and want to treat her that way. Let her know her refusals of it appears that she sees you as just a friend and not someone she'd like to date. (do not get into where it might go as it is way too soon) Let her know what you perceive and ask her to clarify. Also ask her if she would allow you to treat her with special regard.

If the lady is worth it to you, then take a chance and talk to her. It could save you some headache along the way.  Just be advised, that if she is doing it from a place on 'not deserving' it could be a difficult road unless or until she gets to a place where she feels she does. This is stuff she'll have to work through..

Best wishes.

Toni..

Comment #45

Well, if someone wants to be your friend, how does leaving you alone foster a friendship???  That doesn't make any sense!.

I wouldn't ask her anything on the 2nd date using Match.com (assuming that occurs), but I would step up the romantic gesturesmaybe hold her hand or put your arm around her, and go for a kiss at the end of the date.  If she reacts uncomfortably to those things, then it's likely she is thinking friendship, in which case asking her about it would be a good idea..

Sheri.

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Comment #46

Here is an update. I feel like a jerk now. I asked her out again and she texted me saying that we could hang out on Saturday and I could meet her friend Bobby. I texted her back and her back thinking that was her boy friend and she was trying to tell me nicely to leave her alone so I wrote, "He's your boyfriend, he's a lucky guy I don't need to meet him. i'm sorry for putting you on the spot". She writes me back and tells me that Bobby is a friend of hers and that he a and his wife were coming up to visit. She figured we would like to meet because we are from the same home town.

Which explains alot. I really thinks she is telling the truth...

Comment #47


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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