Your question was: I need some help!!.
Gal_carmena, YOU need to make the decision that it's over. While it's understandable that he is perhaps not over his wife, that is no excuse to continue leading you on. He should not have put himself in a dating (online dating with Match.com) situation if he were still attached. He seems emotionally unavailable for many reasons and you should not have to put up with that. Everyone deserves to be adored, and it does not seem that he is showing much adoration or admiration towards you. When and if he calls, ignore it for a while, or pick up and kindly say that it's just not working out for you.
Good luck, lots of prayersKate..
"when I brought up exclusivity he said, "I'm not in love with you"." > While that was a brutal thing to say after such a nice weekend, he is telling you the truth. So, you have a decision to make. Do you continue to date, knowing how he feels or do you break it off with him because he is not giving you what you want and may never give you what you want?"All through our dates, though they have been wonderful, all he talks about is his wife, how she did him wrong, how much he loved her, how he misses his kids, how he wants them 50% of the time, ad nauseum, etc."> There is no romance here...the guy needs a shrink not a GF."He won't introduce me to the kids for fear that they will freak out."> Smart move on his part. You have no reason to meet them until your relationship (thru Match.com) gets serious."I think he's too wrapped up in his wife, (he broke into and reads her e-mails)"> It seems like he is not accepting the divorce - bad sign for you. Do you really want a guy who breaks into emails?"need a man to love me and put me first."> You and every other woman in the world. You'll never come first to a man who has kids.
Try to get the tape back and dont make one ever again...
Yeah, I got hurt over that. We were having sex all night, and then next time I talk to him and ask about being exclusive, he throws that in my face. I still don't understand why he said it. I did not ask him. It WAS brutal and I don't think needed to be said. I only asked about the exclusivity thing because I noticed his profile had been checked twice Saturday even though he didn't bother to return my calls.Do you think he was trying to end it right then and there? When you say he may never give me what I want, do you mean never fall in love with me? That he can tell already? that's a scary thought....
If this guy is truely stressed out, he is going to want to escape from his stresses. This is where you come in. You can be his escape girl or someone who will expect him to tow the line in terms of what is expected in a relationship. If you want to be his escape girl then you need not ask him about loving each other or more time, etc.He doesnt sound like a great catch - too stressed, not divorced yet, with kids to take a priority. You need someone who is going to ADD to your life, with happy times, romance and all that good fun stuff. This guy is going to drain the h#ll out of you.I dont know if he was trying to end things right then and there, but he doesn't seem to want to treat you in a gentle fashion - a turn off."When you say he may never give me what I want, do you mean never fall in love with me?" > ...possibly (one never really knows) and the type of relationship (thru Match.com) that you want, complete with being a top priority...
Escape girl? I'll never be that for ANY man. I value myself a lot more than that. If anything,I can be his friend, but don't know if I want to even consider that after the way he's acting. He's been back on the dating (online dating with Match.com) site searching for dates I suppose. It looks like an escape girl is what he needs, but he can look elsewhere for that...
Escape girl doesnt mean something derogatory - some people can escape into another's arms and it is heaven (and she feels so valuable and cherished), but...in the end...the heaven sent girl gets screwed. Eventually he will get his act together and then give of himself to someone else. This is why married men have affairs - to escape reality. If he is on a dating (online dating with Match.com) site looking for dates then definitely forget about him. How can you be his friend? He is not acting like a friend to you or to himself. I would cut this mediocre catch loose so some other woman can be his kids' babysitter...
>>>Escape girl doesnt mean something derogatory - some people can escape into another's arms and it is heaven (and she feels so valuable and cherished), but...in the end...the heaven sent girl gets screwed. Eventually he will get his act together and then give of himself to someone else.<<<I would not mind being the escape girl the way that you've described it. I know one thing though, I definitely don't want to lose in the end. Be his comfort until he gets emotionally healthy and then wants to find a new woman-that's not for me. >>>If he is on a dating (online dating with Match.com) site looking for dates then definitely forget about him. How can you be his friend? He is not acting like a friend to you or to himself.
Since I'm the only woman he was dating, like he says, it's the right thing to do.I was real good to him. Snuggled with him, held him, kissed him, all the things he complained that his wife never did for him and this is how I get treated...
I guess he just didn't appreciate you. We meet ungrateful people everyday, don't we? The reason I mention being the escape girl is because I was once the "silver lining in the dark cloud" many years ago and I didn't realize way back in time what that exactly meant. But I do now, and now so do you.In the future try not to place yourself in the rebound position. If you meet someone transitioning, let them walk on by. I have heard of couples who meet on the rebound and things work out well, but not as many as those who break up badly because the guy just needed some comfort until he could screw his head on straight...
Oh man, why do people go looking for the drama in their lives?.
I do think you called too much. Seriously, 1:30 am? Why? Don't you need to sleep? There is such a thing as respecting other people's time, too. .
How is someone supposed to know if they're in love after only what, a couple of months? I'm sure you're feeling something for him, probably infatuation right now, but "in love" is more than that and takes a longer time to begin to develop, typically around 3-6 months. It's ok to not be in love after two months. Really it is, so he was basically just stating a fact, he's just not so good with the delivery. And as far as his little "love at first sight" thing with his ex-wife (or soon to be) well, how did that work out for him? Not so good, right? I don't put much stock at all in love at first sight, that IS in fact, for children, just as he said it happened with him and his ex in high school. Why? Because kids can't tell the difference between infatuation and in love. Unfortunately, a lot of adults can't either. So him stating that the way he did, yes, he stuck his foot in his mouth all the way to his knee, but that doesn't mean he couldn't be in love with you in the future, just right this second he's not feeling enough of that in order to be exclusive to you in particular, if he feels he needs to be in love in order to be exclusive. Everyone has their own criteria, it's a matter of finding someone who shares similar beliefs and criteria..
Now, this doesn't make him a jerk, a user, a player, or any of those things unless you decide that that's how you want to look at it, or unless you let someone sway you in that direction. You can choose to look at it as you have really good information to work with here, that he's not exclusive to you and you now have to act according to your own personal values on that:.
Can you be with someone sexually whom you are not exclusive with? I cannot, so therefore that would be where I stop the "love train." If he wants to date using Match.com me, fine, but no sex. If he wants to have sex with me, then there's the whole exclusivity thing HE has to now contend with. My values remain the same. See how that works?.
Now, here's where this gets tricky:.
He's still very much hung up on his soon-to-be ex-wife. Soon-to-be. He's right now in no position to get into something serious with anyone, the real problem here is that you're wanting that with someone who is in no position to offer that to you, no matter how upset you may get, no matter how sweet you are to him, no matter how much you say you care about him. And don't say you don't want something serious with him, because otherwise you wouldn't be wanting exclusivity and you wouldn't be upset about this. Your actions give you away. It's okay to want it, it's just not going to work with this guy at this time. Realize that has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with his inability to be a whole partner to you or anyone right now. .
I just wanted to point out that rule number one in dating (online dating with Match.com) is don't talk incessantly about your past exes, it's just such a turn-off not to mention a HUGE, MASSIVE, FLAPPING-IN-THE-WIND RED FLAG. Or it should be, and to continue seeing him after that is why I said people seek out the drama in their lives. This situation wouldn't even exist if you had dropped him like a hot potato in the very beginning, as soon as you heard he wasn't completely divorced yet. It should have hammered home in your mind when he kept talking about her, even moreso when you found out he broke into and reads her emails. .
As far as you saying he needs to "sit his 9-yr-old daughter down" and tell her his "marriage to her mother is over and he needs to get on with his life" shows me maybe you don't have kids? Because what child wants to hear that? Especially since it's *not* really over quite yet, the extrication process hasn't exactly happened yet, and kids need lots of time to adjust to probably the biggest upheaval in their young lives. She doesn't have to accept it at this point, she's a little girl. That little girl's world is shattering and you're worried about your makeup. Forcing the situation isn't going to help that issue, nor ingratiate yourself to a dating (online dating with Match.com) partner's child. After two months of non-exclusive, non-serious dating, he's absolutely right not to introduce a new person to his children yet. There's no reason to bring new people into their lives that may not (or may) be staying around until it's a for sure thing, that is the smart and responsible thing to do as a parent, so don't get upset over that..
And I guess last: Do you want a man who will break into and read the emails of his ex-wife? Are you sure he wouldn't do that to you, invade your privacy that way? Having nothing to hide is beside the point, invasion of privacy is another big red flag (or it should be, make a note of that.).
I really don't see where the "ghosting" took place, he just hasn't been calling you back in a "timely manner" which for me means within a day or so, and for someone else could mean within an hour or two? Since you've talked in the last couple of days, to me, it seems as though you're jumping the gun on that conclusion. However, from my perspective, you're jumping the gun on a guy who's probably not a good relationship (thru Match.com) candidate to begin with, for you or anyone right now..
Just think about it. I think you could find someone who could make a better partner for you, but that's just my opinion. Work on that other stuff I mentioned, it'll help you also find and be a better partner with someone, no matter who you end up with..
CL-Breaking Up Is Hard to Do.
CL-Ask the dating (online dating with Match.com) Doyenne.
We waste time looking for the perfect lover, instead of creating the perfect love. Tom Robbins..
Wow! That was great advice. Thank you. I agree with all of it. I've calmed down now and am starting to think things through a bit and am coming to all the conclusions you pointed out in your post. Thanks again...
Holy moly, you're getting the treatment on a couple of the other boards, aren't you? Everyone means well, it's just that it's so disheartening to see women make some questionable and sometimes really bad choices in their lives. Some people come on the boards and tell their story one time, get input and leave, but some of us who have been trying to help out others over the years see the same stories over and over again and we can sometimes get a little, um, vehement in our replies ;-).
Ok, so I'm glad you've calmed down and that you're starting to think more clearly now, but that doesn't tell me what you're going to DO about this situation. Do you stay with Still-Married Dude or not? Do you continue to (IMO) waste time wondering why he's not calling or do you chalk it up to wrong time, wrong person (in your case)? .
The tape: Well, it's not a tape, is it. It's on his hard drive. So, me being the person I am, I'm going to seriously advise you to NOT tell him ahead of time you want it back and your makeup along with it. Don't give away your hand, you need all copies of that thing destroyed. So you play nice until you're back in his house again, and then you lay it on him, you would really prefer that the video be destroyed and you sit there and watch him delete it off his hard drive and clean out the "trash bin" too. It's MOST important that you not be confrontational about it at all, lest he get pissy or vindictive about this. I'm not saying he will, but then again, I don't know the guy..
About the sex with no condom aspect of this I read on the other board: Why? You're a grown woman, why would you put yourself at risk this way? Fact is you don't know this man as well as you think you do, not in two months' time, and really he could be telling you almost anything at this point. Did you see recent test results of his that you didn't mention in the other post? Not only that, but you are plainly aware that you could very well become pregnant, there is still that .1% chance that apparently some people have found themselves in and what a situation to find yourself in if you're not positive beyond doubt that you're committed to each other. So hello, can we think about things before we do them? .
No one is responsible for your life except for you. Remember that..
CL-Breaking Up Is Hard to Do.
CL-Ask the dating (online dating with Match.com) Doyenne.
We waste time looking for the perfect lover, instead of creating the perfect love. Tom Robbins..
>>>Ok, so I'm glad you've calmed down and that you're starting to think more clearly now, but that doesn't tell me what you're going to DO about this situation. Do you stay with Still-Married Dude or not? Do you continue to (IMO) waste time wondering why he's not calling or do you chalk it up to wrong time, wrong person (in your case)?<<<I don't know what I'm going to do with this situation. I wanted things to continue like they were, with him continuing to see and treating me like a princess and taking me to great places and showing what I thought was affection. He's not ready to date, even though I wish that were different. But do I? I think I got a bad deal. For him to go away and for this amount of time with no explanation is rotten.
He has been back on the dating (online dating with Match.com) site today. It's now been five days and no calls or contacts whatsoever...One consolation: If this is the end, he's going to steam roll over some other girls heart and she can be the rebound relationship, not me. Ours wasn't long enough to be anything really..
Edited 7/7/2007 12:26 am ET by gal_carmena..
Well, it does look like he is pulling away, for whatever reason he has...and it is not you because he is still too messed up to make good decisions anyway. Can you send a certified letter or an email or some kind of written communication to get the tape and your personal belongings. The make up can be replaced but the tape is valuable to you. If you state things very clearly and confidently maybe he will at least be a grown man and give you the tape.Chalk it up to a lesson learned about men and divorce and rebounds and pulling off the nice guy routine. My second ex husband fooled me too. He came off as nice guy Bob and turned out to be someone who would destroy my home after the divorce out of bitterness and spite.
If he died, I wouldn't care. That is how bad of a person he was. He portrayed himself to be an ethical, decent person who would never lift a finger to hurt anything or anyone. But, because he is impressionable and easily manipulated...he turned ugly...
>>>Well, it does look like he is pulling away, for whatever reason he has...and it is not you because he is still too messed up to make good decisions anyway.<<<Hi, Snafu. I really believe what you said above that it's not about me. He's screwed up emotionally. BUT, and I thank cl 2nd_life on the toxic relationships board for pointing this out to me, it doesn't give him the right to lie to me. That's hurtful and user behavior. Do you agree?About the tape.
My parents say give it another week and he'll be calling me. One thing, I have pictures of him naked, showing his genitals and face (he e-mailed to me before he stopped calling). Does that level the playing field? Meaning, chances are he wouldn't put the tape on the internet because I could put his pics on there. But, you know what? That still doesn't stop him from distributing copies to his friends who could post it on the net...
Hi! I see that you posted about a week ago...I just wanted to reply anyway.It seems like you've met a man who is emotionally (and physically and mentally) unavailable. Unfortunately, you may have been somewhat of a rebound for a man who is not over his marriage. I honestly believe that freshly divorced, and especially people who are still IN THE PROCESS of divorce really don't need to be dating. There should be a 'healing' time between relationships, especially when those broken relationships were marriage.Question: how long did you know him before having sex with him? I know you said that it was on the third date...how much time passed before the third date? From his behavior, it's pretty clear that he is still hung up on his broken marriage and that he is not ready for a relationship. Yes, his "I'm not in love with you" comment was definitely harsh; however, at least he was honest. Of course, he is still leading you on by not returning calls or just giving you straight answers.Also, a huge red flag is a man who speaks negatively about another relationship...this is huge, gal_carmena.
Also, the fact that he broke into his wife's emails shows that he is somewhat obsessed with her. That kind of behavior is unstable. Would you want to be with someone who would do that?In regards to him introducing you to his children, I agree that is way too soon for you to meet them. There is no need for you to meet the children of a man you've been dating (online dating with Match.com) for only two months. You're trying to build a relationship (thru Match.com) with him, not his children.
When things don't work out, it confuses the kids, especially if they're young. Meeting kids should really only happen when things are serious.It's not a matter of him being a 'nice guy' or not. What he is is a guy who isn't over his wife. Honestly, two months is not enough time to determine whether or not someone is a nice person. People tend to be on their best behavior in the beginning because they're trying to win you over.
Sex changes things and it's usually the woman who ends up hurt when things don't work out. It was wrong of him to continue with you, knowing that he isn't over her. However, it's not like you went into it blind. You knew full well what was going on. There's no one to blame here...what you have to do is decide whether or not you want to hang on to something that appears to be hopeless, or move on, though you're hurt.
I wish you the best.Mali.
Edited 7/8/2007 2:10 pm ET by mali2579..
"it doesn't give him the right to lie to me. That's hurtful and user behavior. Do you agree?"> Yes, I believe you and the cl on the other board are correct. If he uses and lies and cheats then he is guilty of a moral infraction. Of course there is no law against what he did and some morons rely on that to turn things around on you to say that "you asked for it". Of course we should rely on our instincts to guide us, but if you have never encountered this type of behavior before...you may fall prey to it.
How horrible that people will use and abuse and then...eventually become paranoid. For instance, my second ex husband (the one who tricked me) is guilty of vandalizing my home. When we divorced he gave me a very strong impression that we could still be friendly and rely on each other in a pinch and there was no animosity regarding the divorce. He used to babysit my cat when I would have to go out of town on work. Then, when my airconditioning system got vandalized in 2002 I changed the locks to the house and took back the keys from him and my cleaning man.
When they pulled out the air handler I saw leaking from 3 spots in the unit and the woman at the company who supplied me the new airconditioning system told me it looked like someone took a screwdriver to it. I tried pet sitters and I was not happy with them. When my ex's parents moved down to Florida I asked them if they would hold a set of keys and look after my cat if necessary. They said yes and wrote down my alarm pass code and put it with the keys, in their drawer.By June 2004 I noticed certain items in my office were missing. Files about my credit cards, a spare key, my sales performance history, medical records and work related documents were gone.
By mid 2004, I started to notice that things in my house were damaged again. Obviously someone was getting in when I would leave the house and damaging my kitchen cabinets and walls and tile and grout and appliances in such a way (probably with the use of chemicals) so that the interaction with cleaning agents would start to destroy finishes and create stains that I could not get out. Inside my kitchen cabinets there are orange and yellow splotches and drip marks. Once I filed a police report (burglary and vandalism) and told my ex that I did file the report the damage stopped. Eventually I changed the locks again.
I asked for the divorce. Instead of fighting the settlement he chose to get back at me later. He worked in conjunction with another person who is also sick (a rich doctor - he was obsessed with me and my ex was his patient and doctor was caught following me - tried to get a restraining order, but couldnt'). Unfortunately his parents get sucked into this, but if they knew what he was going to do to me, I can't help them. When I gave his parents the keys my ex was not on the deed to the house.
So now, the house is his and he had every right to enter the home. Just because I gave them the keys to the house, it doesn't give them the right to vandalize my house...just like your situation. I didn't think they were criminals. I did not give consent for Bob to enter the house, only his parents. I never told his mother that I wanted her son in my home and I never told him that he could come instead of his parents.
I remember when I was divorcing both exes...I was not in a state of mind to have a real relationship (thru Match.com) during the break up/move out/pending finalizing paperwork time..maybe a fling at most...
>>>how long did you know him before having sex with him? I know you said that it was on the third date...how much time passed before the third date?<<<It was actually the 4th date using Match.com we had sex-that makes me feel better. I have known him for about six weeks. He called me every single night after our first meet. I would say about 5 weeks had passed before the 4th date using Match.com because he has his kids every other weekend..
Edited 7/8/2007 2:33 pm ET by gal_carmena..
Snafu, I'm sorry this happened to you. Your ex (the doctor) sounds very evil. I'm sorry. You got away from him, that's the best thing...
Heavens no...the ex is a bread guy - not the doctor. My ex was a patient of the doctor (psycho) with whom he got entangled, into a life of crime. Unfortunately I knew the doctor because I was once a drug rep for a pharmaceutical company in the same area that the doctor practiced. The doctor and I never dated...
Just so you know, guys are testing women after they sleep with them by pulling back. I read that in "Men Who Marry Bitches". They do this to test a woman's control over her emotions. While you know that your SO is kind of messed up...don't rule out this sick game that immature guys play with women...
>>>Just so you know, guys are testing women after they sleep with them by pulling back. I read that in "Men Who Marry Bitches". They do this to test a woman's control over her emotions. While you know that your SO is kind of messed up...don't rule out this sick game that immature guys play with women.<<<Snafu, the above is a good point and I wouldn't put it pass this man who I really believe to be dysfunctional like stated on another board. I just read on one of the boards a round of advice given to a woman who was dating (online dating with Match.com) a man that chose to go back to his wife. That got me thinking: If this man would have behaved decently with me and had not disappeared for 7 days and counting, who's to say he wouldn't have gone back with his wife later on? Then I would have gotten really hurt.
He has been with and known his stbx for 18 years of his life. They have a strong history, he's still wounded, still loves her (I have no idea why I didn't see it before) and desperately loves and wants to live with and raise his chldren 100% of the time. I think that if she decides to go on with the marriage or reconcile later, he would get back with her at the drop of a hat! So, maybe I dodged a bullet? Though I am in no way excusing his behavior which I think stinks. But, Karma says he'll get his. Before it's said and done, some woman will treat him just as rotten as he's treated me.
We have the internet. He could have at the very least send a brief e-mail saying it's over and that he was sorry. I will say that the sex was good, and I got wined and dined for 6 weeks (he spent a lot of money). That's something. Although I shouldn't and won't again put myself into this situation and ignore all these red flags for good sex.
Hopefully like another poster said, he will not have distributed copies to his friends or placed it on the net by then.
Edited 7/9/2007 1:33 am ET by gal_carmena..
"So, maybe I dodged a bullet?" > I think so. I think when a man talks incessantly about an ex there are unresolved issues either with love or anger. Either can infect any relationship (thru Match.com) with a new woman in his life. "Hopefully like another poster said, he will not have distributed copies to his friends or placed it on the net by then." > good luck."And I don't buy this crap from some men that a man who 'ghosts' on a woman wants to avoid drama. We have the internet. He could have at the very least send a brief e-mail saying it's over and that he was sorry."> I agree. But to send a brief email it would require them to be MEN and not boys...and that's where most of them fall short...
Snafu, I just wanted you to know he changed his profile to include a brand new pic, complete with a new "instant message" feature. And he also changed his age back to 34. He's really 44 and when I found that out, he said that was there by mistake and that he would change it. He did, but now on this updated profile, which he chose to "hide", it's back to saying he's 34. I feel like I'm going to throw up! seriously I feel sick! I used no protection...
Oh no! Well, he's a dirty dog and you know another girl is going to get caught in his web. How does he get away with lying about his age? So..new pic and a private profile? What a loser.If you are truely concerned about not using protection...in about 6 months you might want to consider getting tested for STDs like gonorrhea, clamydia, syphillis, HIV. It's always best to get a clean bill of health. Did you happen to ask him when the last time was that he had sex prior to you? That is usually a good question to ask and...you could also throw in a question about when was the last time he was tested for STDs. Just because he is going through a divorce doesn't mean he didn't have sex with other women during the course of his marriage. It has a long time since I have had sex (bummer...I know) however, I was tested after the last time I had sex and it is nice to know that I'm okay...
Snafu, yes, I'm in shock. really. For some reason I just didn't believe he was actually this low. He really can pass for 34, and that's what I thought he was at first. I did ask him when the last time he had sex was and he said it was 5 months ago with his stbx when he was still in the house and they were still trying to work things out. He did say he would get tested when I asked him, but he didn't tell me the last time he got tested..
Edited 7/12/2007 1:38 am ET by gal_carmena..