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I just read another relationship (thru Match.com) book

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Today, I read "Why Men Marry Bitches".Again, Ms. Argov does list some nice ideas for women in a pinch. However, I have 2 problems with this book and "Why Men Love Bitches":1)90% of what is described as "bitch" in her books is my natural personality and has been my personality as long as I can remember. My problem is this: over time I noticed that men didn't take my statements about how I wished to be treated seriously (like with a wink) or take my "bye byes" seriously. They continued to call or asked if I wanted to go shopping with them (inappropriate responses to my requests or statements) and now I understand why...they thought I was playing a game. I dont' play games with a man's mind.

I'm sure men have read these books and now relationships have been reduced to tricks and ploys and every person is going to make sure that they are on top.Men may love games...it keeps them interesting in dating (online dating with Match.com) I guess. That is not what I am looking for in a dating (online dating with Match.com) partner. Of course we all put our best foot forward when we meet anyone...even a friend. But that is not what I am talking about. In the book, it is stated that men like to test women.

The reason behind the "tests" is to see how we handle those situations - to see if we maintain control over our emotions. If I want to participate in a clinical study...I'll sign up for one, thank you. If a guy wants to turn dating (online dating with Match.com) into an experiment or desires to become a researcher...he need not call me...ever. If a guy tries to use jealousy to see if a woman cares...that is antiquated thinking. But...men admit they love seeing jealousy on a woman's face.

So.. a newsflash for men. If a guy wants to do the "pull back routine" then I assume he is emotionally vacant and I am better off without him - so...based on these "bitch" rules...he pulls back and I pull off. Now he is "intrigued". Unfortunately for him, I will have no interest in rekindling anything because I will lose interest in a man like that very quickly.

Bantering and teasing is fine in small amounts, but shouldnt be the mainstay of communication between two people. Showing up late and cancelling tells me he isn't into me, so again, I lose interest.2) The book draws an impossible image for a woman to achieve and maintain in order to attract and keep a guy. The book keeps repeating how a guy doesn't want a woman to need him. That she can self maintain. To an extent I agree with this.

However, to project an image of not needing a man is also prescribing a cold relationship (thru Match.com) with a man. There is nothing wrong with needing a shoulder to cry on, emotional support, friendship, a confidante and so on. It seems as though men dont' want to be needed in that way anymore, based on these books. It is okay to need someone. If a man expects a woman to go at it alone if scared, or in need of help or needing comfort, then he is cruel and no one I want to date.

I reached out to people and no one contacted me personally to lend me a shoulder or ease my mind and heart by stating that they would help me put the perps behind bars or let me know that they are at least trying to help. Any little bit would have helped. But everyone chose to be cold and cruel. Those who I reached out to and chose to ignore my terrified hand being extended to them..should never call me. I will rip them a new a$$hole.

I wont need anyone at that point. I needed them before. So I will naturally, again, portray that attitude...not needing anyone. It is not because I am adopting a book's ideas to attract men to me. It is just a coincidence.

The emotional intimacy is squelched before the two people complete the first date...

Comments (17)

Your question was: I just read another relationship (thru Match.com) book.

Oh slow down just stop being so uptight you have got men all wrong sweet is better than being a pain though you might disagree with me but who cares!! You will figure it all out about your own way with men when you are all alone. Your Blog is not real you act too lonely or bored stop this why you can. Move to the beach and start living not fighting and to get the love you want !!!..

Comment #1

I am sorry I did not know about your trauma and crime please forgive me my computer went blank then I reread your story again Again sorry !!..

Comment #2

May I extend my sympathies in regards to your crime (assault?) I was mugged at knifepoint in a hotel room when I was 20, but I was very, very lucky. However, I was terrified for 6 months. I can only imagine how I would feel if he had hurt me.Anyway, in regards to the "Bitches" book. I have read just about every book on the shelf about dating (online dating with Match.com) and relationships, but not this one. I think your statement "The emotional intimacy is squelched before the two people complete the first date." is right on.Here's how I see it: I think in courtship there is a certain amount of "game playing" that is OK. I honestly do think men enjoy a challenge at first, but I think one can take it too far.

I would have done well to be more mysterious in the past (you know, when men actually asked me out). But I see a lot of that as self-esteem issues (at least for me). I felt like if I didn't pursue or make things happen, that they would forget about me. So sad really. I would have done much better if I had not returned a few phone calls and acted more confidently.

But too much of that I think signals trouble ahead. Having said all of that, I don't think game-playing is a valid strategy for a long-term relationship. Who could keep that up? The secret to long term is a true, intimate connection. But I think both parties need to be emotionally mature and have dealt with dysfunctional baggage. You can play all of the games you want, but if you haven't dealt with serious issues, it will doom every relationship (thru Match.com) you get into.I think a far better book, and from a man's perspective is "Mars and Venus on a Date." I didn't like his first book "Me are from Mars..." but I really liked this one.

Of course, it is just one man's opinion, but something seemed very true about it. And just for fun, you might enjoy "Mama Gena's School of Womanly Arts."..

Comment #3

Both of your posts have me going..."huh?" Did you intend to post your two above posts for someone else? Because nothing that you posted in either post makes sense to why I originally posted:"Oh slow down just stop being so uptight you have got men all wrong sweet is better than being a pain though you might disagree with me but who cares!!" > I didn't put men down...I was saying that the "Bitch" series was not a great book to read if you really want to have a relationship"You will figure it all out about your own way with men when you are all alone."> I am alone and I didn't say I was dating (online dating with Match.com) anyone."Your Blog is not real"> I don't have a blog and I never mentioned a blog in my original post."you act too lonely or bored stop this why you can" > HUH?"Move to the beach and start living not fighting and to get the love you want !!!" > I never mentioned anything about the beach and I dont wish to live by the beach and I am not fighting with anyone...I am not dating (online dating with Match.com) anyone...

Comment #4

I am sorry to hear you had such an awful experience. I have been reading some of your post and you seem like a very level headed person, with so much to give friendship or boyfriendI hope it all works out for you..

Comment #5

Thanks so much. What is your opinion of these relationship (thru Match.com) books? Have you read any?..

Comment #6

Thanks for your input. As far as "Men are From Mars Women are From Venus", I thought Gray oversimplified men and women and how they deal with things and each other. I have not read the other book "Mars and Venus on A Date". The "Mama Gena's" book looks like fun.Many women do pursue men, but not out of self-esteem issue (or so I thought), but because we are "equal" and it shouldn't matter who initiates romance. But to men it does. It is silly, but that is how it is.

There is always a little push-pull initially, like you said. There is also playful game playing but that is easy to spot. But this nonsense about pulling back after you finally have sex just so see if the woman can hold her emotions together is b.s.As far as the "Bitches" books, it is tough enough out there to be a bitch, but who wants to be a cold bitch? Because that is what is going to happen to women who apply these books to their lives and relationships...

Comment #7

<<As far as the "Bitches" books, it is tough enough out there to be a bitch, but who wants to be a cold bitch? Because that is what is going to happen to women who apply these books to their lives and relationships>>which is why all these relationship (thru Match.com) and self help books should be taken with a grain of salt. There is no one-size fits all answer and many people who read some of this stuff use it that way. I'm thinking very specifically of hte HJNTIY book recently....I've read a lot - and the ones I tend to refer to others are the ones that prompt you to think for yourself not tell you how to think (which is why they are selling books!) - I mean come on, we all REALLY know when someone is interested in us and when they are not. But our emotional neediness and insecurity causes us to deny what we know JUST to get or keep a man's attention. When you are honoring your own truth and being your real'self' you don't play games, you don't 'chase' men, you don't put up with poor treatment, you don't sell yourself out with sex and you don't have all this drama like gets posted here. YOu are happy with who you are, and you don't worry what others think about you.

Unfortunately, with the pandemic of no/low self esteem - there more wanting to be told how to think/act/feel/be than not..

Toni..

Comment #8

"Unfortunately, with the pandemic of no/low self esteem - there more wanting to be told how to think/act/feel/be than not."> aha...you have touched upon another topic...people wanting to be told how to think or feel without using any reason or logic or self interpretation to determine if it is right for them or..if it will cause more problems later. What happened to cause this? I find this seeping into all areas of life, not just relationships or connected to no/low self esteem."HJNTIY book recently...." > what is this book?..

Comment #9

Actually I do believe it's connected with low/no self esteem at the core. I mean think about it, if you believed or trusted yourself to know and do what is best for yourself, you might bounce ideas off others but you basically decide for yourself what course of action to take. If you are blindly following someone else - then you have given them control over your - maybe to not have to be responsible?? and that is being a sheep - not thinking just blindly following someone else'd idea of what's right - come to think of it - that type of blind following is what happens after devastating events - like wars - npeople are hopeless aand see anything as better than what they have. But again, the core of it is - an unwillingness to live consciously and suceed or fail on their own merits. Mediocrity does this - integrity does not. HJNTIY = He's just not that into you: made the rounds BIG time a couple years ago and became the catch phrase to deal with all disappointments.

There is a counterpoint book called :Face it you're just not that into him either" that was quite fun..

Toni..

Comment #10

Actually, I found "He's Just Not That Into You" quite on target and insightful. Yes, it was written in a light and breezy way, but there was some real meat to that book. To me anyway. I wish I had read it (and taken it to heart) when I was 17. It would have saved me sooooo much time.Now when I hear women pondering why a man she had sex with hasn't called her yet, or why he says he's busy with work, etc., I'll think "HJNTIY."My two cents...

Comment #11

I see what you mean. "If you are blindly following someone else - then you have given them control over your - maybe to not have to be responsible?? and that is being a sheep - not thinking just blindly following someone else'd idea of what's right - come to think of it - that type of blind following is what happens after devastating events - like wars - npeople are hopeless aand see anything as better than what they have." > maybe that is what is going on out there...people following blindly...especially since 9/11. People follow books with half baked relationship (thru Match.com) and self help advice. They follow corrupt govts. They dont even notice when their shoes dont fit right. Have you seen how steep the arches are on our shoes? The arches of many shoes now start behind our foot's arch almost back by the heel and then women wonder why they get fallen arches or hammer toes because the toes are smooshed into the front of the shoe. "There is a counterpoint book called :Face it you're just not that into him either" that was quite fun." > LOL.If you like to live consciously and succeed and fail on your own merits then you'll like this quote by Theodore Roosevelt:"The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, who strives valiantly; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worth cause; who at the best knows the triumph of high achievement; and who at the worst; if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that is place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat."..

Comment #12

Yes - I've always like that quote. A book that sounds quite good to me is "Me on Top" written by an editor for some women's mag - I browsed it one day at B&N while killing time - I likely will get it - just haven't been back in. But it looked good - hitting what I think "Bitches" meant to but not as coldly. Basically - be who you are, do what you like and how you like it and do no harm to yourself or others in the process. A creedo I can definitely live by!.

Toni..

Comment #13

Dear Snafu. relationship (thru Match.com) books make me uneasy. I have read many articles on I village and I have read Catch Him Keep Him - Chris Carter. Basically what they all say - veiled and dressed up in different ways is common sense, don't sleep with the guy too soon (yes I agree with this despite being anything but a prude) don't appear too eager (in other words - take it easy and relax) don't answer all calls (this in my opinion is hog wash, don't always be available (yes you should have your own life an interests even if you marry the guy)As such, why do we need a bunch of books to tell us these things? Do we really know the credentials of those who feed us all of this? what is their relationship (thru Match.com) success? I think deep down we all know the answers to the basics of dating (online dating with Match.com) in the initial stages - and I feel we should see the early stages as we would see any friendship platonic or not. The hard part starts when you go beyond the first dates which for me are pretty clinical and you start to get to know the person - this is where dynamics of someone's personality make-up kick in, not to mention their prior experiences which have moulded their inner view and how this relates to the world. This is where we have have friends to to help us see things from the outise looking in. In days gone by, did our parents and grandparents have relationship (thru Match.com) books to tell them how to relate to their SO? All of this is just my humble opinion..

Comment #14

Hi Snafu, and all...Snafu, I'm sorry you're going through a hard time. I hope you're able to heal and feel more healthy very soon. May you find support on the boards and in real life. This thread caught my eye - I've read quite a few relationship (thru Match.com) books myself. For me, I've learned what works is to take what I specifically need from the book.For example/s...Why Men Love Bitches - Before I read this book, years ago, I was a pushover. I was too nice.

This is because I had no idea who I was. I was in high school or college, still finding my way. What I took from reading this book was that I needed to put myself first. If I follow my heart and am able to be independent, I will never be disappointed. HJNTIY - I'd always look for reasons why a guy was acting shady.

While I think some things are overexaggerated in this book, (this isn't an actual quote, but some things I interpreted as, "if he says he'll call at 8:30 and he calls at 8:40, he's just not that into you..) What I did learn from this book is to communicate in order to get answers. If I don't like the answers, it is my life and I may go.How to Succeed with Men - Going into reading this book, I was unsure about give and take. While I feel the outlining of the certain dates (qualifying, middle, and end, I think they are...) are a little awkward and detailed in some ways yet vague in another, I did learn that it is important to be grateful for the kind things a man does, but not to go overboard at the same time. It is important to make it known that you deserve and expect to be treated well, but also appreciate it.Superflirt - In this book, Tracey Cox talks about body language and flirting. I was very unaware of how powerful body language is.

There will always be parts to disagree with; but hopefully there will also be something to take with you. It depends on the reader's needs, experiences, and interpretations.This is a great topic to have posted about.I don't know if my reply is much help/insight... just posted what I know and obviously my opinions that I don't intend to press on anybody. To each their own. Pink..

Comment #15

Would you happen to know the author of "Me on Top"?"Basically - be who you are, do what you like and how you like it and do no harm to yourself or others in the process. A creedo I can definitely live by!" > I have always tried to live this way. Too bad others can't...

Comment #16

Its actually called 'YOu on top' by Kate white (I think)I looked at it on the web - I've decided to hold off on it - upon reading more about it it seemed more about 'getting a man' stuff thn having a life stuff - I may be wrong - but see what you think.One I did pick up and am enjoying is Single: The Art of Being Satisfied, Fulfilled and Independent by Judy Ford - this one definitely focuses on creating YOUR own life and living it fully regardless of status..

Toni..

Comment #17


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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