Laurel, I find myself in the same position and I think a lot of us do. It is brave of you to say it out loud, because some people who are at a different stage of weight loss may not understand yet, but it is also part of the process of growth and change we experience as we lose weight..
It is a bit like the person who gives up smoking and then becomes almost militant in their anti-smoking feelings. You realize how achievable it is, and how great you feel, and what horrible damage you were doing to yourself emotionally and physically before - and it just makes you sick to see other people doing the same things to themselves..
I am not sure it is "intolerance", really, but I know it can feel that way inside. You don't want to have negative feelings about people based on how they look or their size, and yet there is this immediate response in you. We can't choose how we feel, but we can choose how we behave, and that is where tolerance lives - in your actions.
You would never treat anyone differently or as less of a person because of their weight, but there is still that little reaction you have. I think it must be a bit like someone who grew up hearing that people of another race or religion are somehow inferior - as adults they may know this is completely false and treat everyone they meet with equal respect and dignity, but there is always a little voice in the back of their mind they have to deal with.
On my way into work most mornings, I pass a gentleman going down the sidewalk on one of those motorized scooter chairs. I am not great at judging that sort of thing visually, but I would guess he weighs close to 500 pounds, and clearly he is unable to even walk much because of his size. I just want to stop and tell him about Medifast, but I know every person has to make his or her own decision about how to live, and the only thing we can do is set the example ourselves. I get a lot of comments from people I see every day about the changes in my body, and I know of at least two different people who may end up trying Medifast as a result - so I know that some positive comes of it...
I do understand that! I was watching a show on TLC the other night about this clinic in NYC.
For extremly obese people. And these people are ordering pizza, chinese food etc....
I mean they came to this clinic supposedly to lose weight and then they spent the whole time cheating ! Why bother?? You could do that at home. They where wasting the staffs time and the hospitals money oh it made me so angry!.
The good thing is the more I see people using food as a comfort system instead of nutrition the more I know I am on the right path.
Just last night as I ate my lean pork chop and smashed cauliflower my dear husband sat next to me eating some monstrosety (sp?) from sonic. It was like a hot dog bun with some kind.
Of steak, cheese, hot dog, chili lord knows what else. Along with that he had a large cheese tater tots and a malted ball blizzard or whatever they call it. I bet there was over 3000 calories in that meal and I don't even want to guess at the fat and carbs!.
Oh well I have tried to convince him to change his eating habits but he says no way. Of course he is only about 20 lbs overweight and has eaten this way forever.
So all I can do is lead by example - if any once chooses to follow that is great!.
Hah they just came to see if I wanted a breakfast taco!!! No thank you I will enjoy my blueberry oatmeal!.
I see them more in light of how they are hurting like I once did and I want to call out and say there is a better way please let me help you......
But again we can only change us and be an example to others...
I completely understand your post as well. I look at it this way. I basically am substituting the old me for that person and sort of scolding the old me for allowing myself to have been that heavy and eating the way I once did. I'm not really bothered by that person, I am bothered by the old me, if that makes any sense...
Ah, Dave, so you are saying to you it feels like you are projecting your negative feelings about the fat you onto the overweight person? Interesting. Projection of negative feelings about yourself can really be powerful, and hard to distinguish from real feelings about someone else. That is food for thought, thanks...
Vie - I should just tell you in my words what I'm thinking and then you can post them in a more eloquent way. I admire the way you write. That's exactly what I meant to say, just in my own guy-centric way. Thanks hon!..
I think we have all seen others whom you wish you could go up to and tell them about MF,,,,to educate them about what they are doing to their bodies,,,, I don't however , want to ever feel "intolerant" of their weight,,I am a firm believer in "remembering where you come from", whether it is financial background, race, religion, body size..."intolerance" should be reserved for crimes and wrongs against people,,,being overweight , last I looked, is not a crime. Just my opinion,,,,..
Absolutely, Schu, that is what we are saying. We have these feelings and yet we know that we were exactly in the same place not long ago. It's important to sort out why you feel certain things instead of just saying it's wrong to feel them or pretending they don't exist - that never works. Once you have an understanding of what is going on inside your own heart and mind, it is much easier to make the right decisions about how to act...
Did it ever occur to you that people were probably looking at YOU (back about 5 - 6 months ago)..wondering the same thing about you ? Sad - but I'm sure - - - so very true !..
Yup, I have thought that very thing. I wonder if someone did not see me, obese and miserable, shoving candy into my mouth like a starving person and felt disgusted or sorry for me. It is a sobering thought...
Hi everyone! I agree that this is a brave thread to post...because it is a sensitive subject, on the boards and in real life..
I will say, I agree. I am not sure I would call it intolerance either, but then again...maybe I would. I have some very close people in my life who are overweight and for some of them it is really negatively effecting their health.
My roommate is significantly overweight and in many ways, it effects her health. She has really bad migraines which doctors have said is partly because of her weight. She often has mobility issues and parts of her body often go numb. She also just hurt her back and for a few weeks has had a hard time just moving around. I know she isn't happy at the current weight she is at, but I also know she isn't doing anything about it.
We discussed dieting and exercise the other night very briefly. I was discussing my dislike of medications like Alli because I think it's main purpose is to scare people into being compliant on the diet....because they are afraid of the side effects if they eat too much fat (Y'all know what I am talking about!). She said a nice compliment to me...which in the end made me sad. She said that she is amazed at my commitment because she couldn't do that. She said she would need something Alli to make her stick to it because otherwise...she wouldn't..
I was sad to hear her say that because she has already decided to fail before even trying. And...she is saying she can't and in all honesty, it isn't can't...it's won't.
So, yes...I am sad for her and also angry when I see her make the same choices over and over again...and becoming hopeless that things can change..
I wish I could shake her and take her on the journey...but in all honesty, I can remember when I was in her shoes and when I felt it was just too hard. So, I am kind and gentle and hoping that my example will be enough, so that when she wants to make a change she knows I am here.
So, yes...I get your post. I agree. I admit that I judge people sometimes...and I don't feel good about it. I said this on another thread a while ago. I judge people in the grocery store. I look at you and then I look at what you are putting in your cart.
But, I also try to remain compassionate...because I can remember when I was in line at the grocery store only buying a microwave pizza, some ice cream, some M&Ms and some Onion Rings. So...I know on that day...someone else was looking in my basket and thinking, "No wonder she is fat.".
Hugs to you all,.
Scary thing..I started to think the same thing about ME - yeah - it was a scarry thought - it's when I finally woke up and went on-line to order Medifast - lol..
Great posts, everyone. I really appreciate your insights, especially from some of you REAL db vets (like 2,000 posts to my lowly 50 )..
I'll clarify some of my original thoughts: you're right about using the word "intolerance." It's not really that harsh, but I have to say I sort of chose a strong word to 1) stress the emotional toll I felt about both being overweight and now getting healthier and how everyone could feel this way, and 2) generate some good discussion. It's not really intolerance, it's what you guys have said: just that overwhelming urge to go up to someone who is where I was just recently and say that not all hope is lost. If you want to be better, feel better, look better, THERE IS A WAY. I, too, have ended up recruiting people to the program, not b/c I took a harsh stance against their condition and told them what they needed to do, but just by talking about my success and how well it's worked for me..
The other thing is that I DON'T follow through on those thoughts with intolerant actions. I could never do that, b/c I WAS JUST THERE..
I love the flip side that someone else might've thought that about me before. Wonder what I would've done and thought if someone had come up to me and said something... thanks for the perspective. You guys are great...
I don't much pay attention to other people, but I guess if I see someone large I can remember that before April that was me (still large, just not As) After just over 70 lbs gone, I can say that no one can bring you here.... it's a choice you have to make when you're ready to make it. Last year I wasn't ready, this year I was.
Fact is, if we don't follow through, and maintain, it could be us again next time.... so, nope, I don't generally have any derogatory feelings for them... it's just too close yet. Maybe after 10 or 15 years of maintaining my correct weight I'll feel justified in commenting on someone elses... but for now, it's not so far away that I can't remember it all (other than the eating on the street thing, ick... I didn't do that thin, I didn't do it fat, it looks gross no matter who is doing it :P)..
Things to consider: Do you know how they got fat or do you assume they just eat too much. Did they ruin their metabolisms yo-yo dieting for 20 years and not understand they have to eat less to just maintain? Were they chronically depressed before gaining weight, and getting fat became a byproduct? Are they on any number of medications that cause weight gain, including some antidepressants, and were not told. And only some pharmacies provide package inserts. I had to go on megace, the only drug made that will hopefully prevent me from developing uterine cancer until I am at a safe enough weight to get a hysterectomy. They give it to AIDS patients with wasting syndrome. Even with my knowledge of the side effects, I was honestly convinced I had more good days than bad, eatingwise.
I wonder if the big is beautiful woman chose this route instead of committing suicide and instead decided to buy clothes she felt good in and get a cute haircut and start wearing makeup again, trying to meet at least some of societies standards for physical beauty..
And how on earth could you know if they haven't tried anything just because you think they don't look like they've tried anything..
I really can't judge you for having those thoughts, but as a kind, caring, and tolerant person you say you are, would you ever want to encourage the rightness of such thoughts? Probably not. So maybe the discussions needs to be about trying to not have such thoughts, and instead switching to those of compassion for a person for whose history you could not possibly know and therefore have no right to judge. They are you before and me now..
Intolerance is what leads to the deaths of many gays and transgendered people because of who they are. And please don't say that's different because the fat person can control what they eat. Were we in control before you found MF? Are we guaranteed control because we're losing or even maintaining the weight?.
Though I have never personally heard of someone being murdered for being too fat, intolerance for fat people seems to be growing and it is still okay to laugh at a fat persons expense in public, as many comedians do. I was also on a fat-acceptance newsgroup many years ago (mid-to-late 90's), that still exists as a Google Group, that had a collection of some of the most vile people you would hope to never meet, who would give very descriptive murder fantasies of fat people because they thought they were just too disgusting to live. I'm sure I could find some archives of one character I will not soon forget. There was no such animal as moderation on most of those groups, and it took months with the archaic setup, and irrational free-speech types, to get a moderated group, which we finally did..
I was also subjected about 30 yrs ago to a near verbatim of what you put in caps while I was walking down a public street in conservative, friendly, Lincoln, NE, by a weight loss zealot who then handed me some brochure. I seem to recall staying home from work for several days after that, afraid to go out in public again..
So maybe that's why I think it's important to be careful about talking about these things without also including how to keep them from going any further in your thoughts than a place like these boards where you are not likely to be saying these things to someone who would only see it as justification for what they have turned into truly deviant thoughts and intolerance of fat people..
I don't know if this post will be considered a slam, that you asked us not to do. I really don't think it is because I don't think you are an evil person for simply having the thoughts. It's what you do with them that testifies to the kind person you consider yourself to be otherwise. But that ironically makes me think of some who think it is unfair to put restrictions on how they are allowed to answer a persons posts. For example, the OP asks for kindness and compassion, and are given, by some, something that might be described as other than that by the OP and others. Interesting paradox, if I do say so myself, and not open to discussion in this thread, I hope and pray..
So we have gone in one short leap from Laurel asking asking a legitimate question about the emotional changes she is going through, to eugenics of fat people. No, nothing judgmental there.
Laurel, whatever some may thinkyou can not "try not to have those thoughts". You can not simply decide not to have certain emotions, short of medication, and even then those emotions are still there, and will have to be dealt with eventually. As I said, you can only control the actions you take.
You started this thread as a way to help deal with the changing and confusing emotions you are facing as you near the end of your weight loss process, and that is a completely valid topic for discussion on a weight loss forum.
The board is also a good place for discussions about how people have been mistreated as a result of their weight, how that has affected them and what we as a community can do to help - but it really has nothing to do with your post...
I completely understand where Vie is coming from, and I feel that Dave hit the nail on the head. I believe that I project my negative feelings about how I could have let myself go so far onto others. Not intentionally, but it happens. My DH has had to deal with me on this, if you've seen my blog photo you know he's a big guy. I am concerned for his health, and when I see him to continue to make poor choices, even though I am making everything good available to him, it hurts me because I want him to care enough about himself to want better, it's a self esteem, confidence builder when you lose weight. If you see my recent photo additions you can see where I was right before I started MF, definitely depressed and discouraged.
The challenge for us is to accept that we can ONLY change ourselves and offer prayers and encouragement for those we care about...
I really think everyone has brought interesting views to the table here,,,,,and I think most of us agree , no matter what our thoughts, we would never act in an ugly manner toward an overweight person. I really don't see where ANYONES post was a slam,,,I just see different ways of looking at things,,,,,that said,,,campfire time!..
Eimont,,self esteem and ego can be great things,,and as we lose weight, we all deserve to have them,,,,,we just need for them not to cause us to be lose compassion and understanding along with the weight,,,,weight loss does change many people,,and I have seen many that it has not changed for the best when it comes to attitude and personality..
I can very well understand your concern for your DH,,I have a friend I am worried about due to her weight, I have let her know how I lost, have given her the ads out of magazines, talked the whole program up. I can't make her come around, she suffers from depression, and as a result , overeats,,,she brought me up short one day when she looked at me and said,,"Sharon, back when you carried your extra weight, you were kinder, now you don't seem to really "see" me at all. ",,then she cried,,I didn't mean to be different to her,,but pushing her toward Medifast was hurting her,,not helping,,,I decided then and there to love her as my good friend, as she is,,,,,and to be there for her ,,hopefully,,when she has finally faced her depression and is ready for the weight loss. I hope I never cause pain to another in this manner. Do I want to ever be intolerant?? H_ _ L NO!,,now about that campfire,,,..
I want to stand in front of the Obseity Surgery centers & hand out Medifast samples LOL.
I really hate to see anyone go through with surgery when they can do MF..
When I see heavy people, I feel for them I know the hopeless feeling & I so badly want to.
Help them get the results I did. But as the boards show, knowing about Medifast & Committing.
To Medifast are 2 different birds. There are some people that have not hit that place in their.
Brain yet to do what they need to do to be successful..
I remember my mom talking about how deeply disturbed she was by the difference she saw in how people treated her post MF. For some reason, I try really hard to keep that with me.... To not make a hasty judgement whether the person is wearing a size 4 or a size 22W. It is hard for me though, because I don't just see a fat person anymore. I see a pathetic addict that has no respect for their life or their loved ones' happiness. Harsh? Yeeap.
We shouldn't tolerate it, in ourselves or people that we care about...
As much as I feel that the OP has very valid feelings and I can relate to her, I also think that Maryann had some valid points in that not everyone is fat because they overeat. There are many reasons why people become heavy other than poor eating habits. While your feelings are your feelings and are valid for you, I don't think it's appropriate to group all heavy people with such harsh terms. Not here especially. I can't agree with your point of view and I find it rather offensive, actually...
I do not believe in discriminating against anyone whether is is their weight, race, etc. If anything I feel even more understanding of heavy people since I used to be one of them! However with that said, I could have used someone like you to wake me up and tell me to stop the madness. Going to the doctor is what finally made me decide I needed to lose weight...
Wow. Do you judge alcoholics? Do you judge people with cancer who smoked or worshipped the sun all their lives? Maybe I don't want to know your answer to those questions as you may think they deserve their illness. I think your beliefs are really inappropriate, on this board especially. Or do you just not intend to make any posts of support for those who may struggle and occassionally eat off plan, but certainly don't need your judgement. I wouldn't try now anyway, because you have most certainly damaged your credibility with anyone who reads this, as being capable of compassion. I rarely say anything this harsh, and may have overstepped my rights to disagree, but you are really showing your ignorance of the word addiction, even as you use it, if you think your judgment would ever help anyone you loved turn their lives around.
Wow, an example even closer than I would have imagined to the lure of this topic to try to validate their really twisted beliefs..
Hi, I really don't want to get deeply embroiled in this discussion, but I am curious about this statement..
I believe that you can be sexy, beautiful, and potentially healthy at a larger size. I'm not quite sure what your definition of unhealthy size is, but I think it would be difficult to put that label on anyone from outward appearance. I used to attend an aerobics class with an instructor who is clearly a little overweight. But watching her kick everybody's butt and seeing her muscles as we did the weight training portion, I'd hardly call her unhealthy. I never asked why she's carrying extra pounds, or if she's trying to lose them. All I know is that she is a great instructor..
Also, keep in mind that sizes and shapes may vary according to ethnicity. African American women (and I use this example because I am one), tend to be more "hippy". I spent several years in the military, and at one point had a body fat of less than 20%, but I could never fit into anything smaller than an 8 or 10 simply because of my shape.
I know that these aren't the types of people you are necessarily referring to, but maybe it will help you to think about it in this way. Everyone has a story or situation. You never know what someone is going through. Also, you don't know what's happening inside of their body. Why spend so much time reflecting on others anyway? Focus on yourself and your goals, and you'll spend less time questioning the feelings you have about those around you..
By the way, People magazine has a great article this week about this issue. May be worth the read...
She didn't say she spent "so much time" reflecting on others. Only that she has these thoughts and feelings when she sees others out in public. Unless you live in a cocoon, you see people out in public and have natural thoughts about them. Clearly she's focused on herself and her goals. She's reaching out because she's questioning these feelings, which is a lot healthier than keeping them bottled up inside because it's taboo to talk about it. Suggesting she ignore her unpopular thoughts is convenient, but not necessarily healthy...
Dave, she asked for everyone's opinion, not just yours. Sorry we don't agree - as usual - but if it's bothered her enough to post about it, in my mind that means thinking about it a lot. And IN MY OPINION, there is nothing wrong with trying to redirect thoughts that are bothersome to you..
Joining schu1 at the campfire.....
Forty2lose,,bring an Medifast s'mores bar,,we can stick that sucker on a stick and hold it over the campfire!! Not quite as good as real s'mores,,but hey, a girls gotta do what a girls gotta do!! Safer here by the campfire,,..
You don't really like to discuss things, do you? Discussion involves listening and adding to the discussion. I never claimed that my opinion couldn't be discussed or argued with. You get so sensitive and defensive. Try listening and responding. It's fun...
I'm gonna sit Dave and Forty2Lose side by side at my campfire,,,,,here's your sticks with the Medifast s'mores bars,,,,,..
Well, topics like this will always cause debate, expose differing viewpoints, and make us look inside and examine ourselves. Not a bad thing at all. I recently completed a sociology class, and I hated it. I couldn't stand studying people by race, ethnicity, sex, physical appearance, etc. To my mind, all that does is stereotype. Afterall, not all Chinese Americans or women or overweight people have had the same experiences and think and feel the same.
So, while I can't say I have the same feelings and thoughts as Laurel when I see very heavy people (I don't usually notice most people), I like these kind of thoughtful posts where all of us intelligent adults can honestly and freely discuss issues. Great post Laurel...
Ok, so if I agree with you, I'm listening and responding. If I disagree, I'm sensitive and defensive. I get it now.
No worries schu1, I think Dave and I will be allright, we actually found common ground on another post. There's hope for us! Actually, I think we just like poking each other with our s'mores sticks!!..
Lol,,well, just be careful of your eyes with those sticks Dave and Forty2Lose! I agree with Jorian,,it is good when we can discuss and differ,,but still do it in an adult fashion...
I would like to pick up the concept of "projection" again....I not only know what feelings Laurel means...but I have to tell you that I already when I weighed 80lbs more than now...well over 300 pounds...had made the experience when I saw someone big eating junk food in public...i felt negatively about it...almost disgusted....or disturbed...like : how can that person do that to themselves....and looked into that...and it has to do with looking into the mirror...and nothing more...it has not anything to do with judging others....it has to do with being merciless to ourselves....we hate in ourselves what we see in others...and will do that...as long in many repeated ways...until we heal ourselves...now being in the process of healing (hopefully) the ways change a little...i dont want to go back to where I was...so I dont like to be reminded how it was....basically the same projection...deep inside ..looking at that other person...makes me feel scared...and worried...and panicky...i could fall back...or not reach my goals...or reach my goals and then fall....thats all...and those feelings are tough to work with...but admitting to them is a first step....
And I very much agree with vie's point that thoughts and feelings are to be worked and thought on...but the actions we can control.....
SBernstein, yet another interesting viewpoint, offering more food for thought..
Hello all...I have gained a lot of insight and understanding of differing points of view in this thread, which is what this board is all about.
Mary Ann...in particular, I wanted to respond to your first post. You are right, there are a myriad of reasons why someone may find themselves carrying more weight than their body is designed for. And I think most everyone on this thread talked about having some internal judgement, but having external compassion. I don't think that is all that hard to understand..
And...I wanted to say the advocacy work you do is wonderful...and I commend you for it. I have been a social worker for 10 years now, so I get it. I would also like to flip a statement you made...you said you didn't know if anyone has ever died from fatist ideas turning to hate crimes. I think that people have most definitely suffered...because of how society treats overweight people, no doubt. If we started a thread on that topic, I am sure we would have more horror stories and open wounds that I would care to even think about..
However, I will make the case that fat hate may hurt and devastate, but we know that fat can kill...and does. My mother is one of those stories you talked about in your post...who gained weight and it was because of all these external reasons, not because she fell into a Taco Bell and never came out. My mom was diagnosed with diabetes...and it was before people got the kind of treatment they get today. Her blood sugar levels got her hospitalized more times than I can recall. She started having circulation problems...which manifested in her toes. Over the course of her life, she lost I believe...8 of her 10 toes.
Her mobility went way down...because of all this and the weight even went higher. She developed sleep apnea and as a result her CO2 levels went so high, she went into a coma and needed to be hospitalized...was on a breathlyzer for days. She woke up...and was more scared than I have ever seen her. After that, she lost 80 lbs and started to return to the mother I had known. But, unfortunately...the damage had been done.
She was getting better, but still quite sick. We had 1.5 of really good years in the end with my mom. She got to spend time with my brother's son...her only grandchild. My mom passed away in May of this year...she didn't answer the phone, so I went over and found her....a day that will haunt me for the rest of my days.
Why did I tell you all of this...well, I didn't intend to, but here it all is. I guess my point is that you are right...I don't know everyone's story and neither do you. And yes, I have some judgement in my heart when I see someone significantly overweight and see them making choices that are just making that worse. See...my judgement, it's cloaked in sadness and regret. You see...I want that person to live a long, long life with their family. I don't want that person's daughter to miss them as much as I desperately miss my mom.
In my head, I know I was a child...but in my heart, it's a different story.
So, I think whoever said it is right...when we see people and hear a voice in our heads, it has way more to do with us then it does with them.
No, not at all. But this is exactly my point. You get so defensive rather than continuing to argue your point. If you were to justify your position, maybe I could understand it batter. But you just try to scratch my eyes out instead. Just like a woman...
I see EVERYBODY I meet as some aspect of myself...period.
If I feel judgment...it is what I feel about ME...not them..
It really changes your perspective if you go through life this way...
Well said, Maryann! Thank you for your insightful and well-reasoned posts on this thread. Katya..
And I am still laughing at the suicidal bunny avatar, pyra...
Oh and Vie - a pound and a freakin' half? Did you cut off your left arm? Way to go! The weight loss, not the arm thing......
Thanks, Dave, I was pretty thrilled to see the loss on the scale this morning. My arm is fine, thanks for asking...
First of all let me say that these are your feelings, and thus totally legitimate. So you should never get flamed for them. Maybe some folks who disagree, but never flamed. I was a little surprised since we are on a weight loss site, where most of the folks here have some type of food issues, that we are passing judgement on other fat people, but nevertheless we are here so I might as well give my two cents. Esp. since you asked for vets.
1. No. I haven't noticed this in myself. I try to accept that since we are all different, we will represent a variety of sizes, shapes, etc. for a variety of reasons. Queen Latifah is on the cover of something I just saw, she is 200 pounds of beautiful, and I say BRAVO!.
2. Yes. I would like as many people as possible to try Medifast, but food addiction is a nasty thing and way too complicated for me to judge anyone. Some are ready, some are not. Some are ready, but are a part of the 90%+ of people who gained their weight back. I don't dare judge.
3. Yes. I do think a big woman can be beautiful, and to assume not disgraces many of my relatives, friends, etc. who for whatever reason are not willing/ and or able to lose the weight. Example, Star Jones looked WAY better about mid-way through here weight loss. In the people magazine article when Tyra was 175 she looked awesome, I was kind of disoppointed that she felt the pressure to conform and lose weight.
Thinner is not always more attractive. Even at 281 I had a pretty good dose of self-acceptance. Everyone should. I am not a 'fat is disgusting' type of person. I was pretty good looking woman in a size 22, but slaming in a size 14 ..
4. What is beautiful to one person or culture is not necessarily the same for others. I think the BMI is a rough estimate and does not take a lot of things into account about muscle, ethnicity, water retention, etc. Not every person of a certain height should be in 'that' range in order to be healthy..
5. Medifast is expensive. I come across people all day long I would love to try it, but know they could never afford it. Or at least they can not figure out 'how' to afford it. My cleaning lady really wants to lose weight, but she makes less than $500 per month, has cronic heart trouble, and many other aliments. She has not been able to qualify for disability, and pays for her food with public assistance.
Maybe my insecurities are showing, but as one of the people on this board who has made a choice not to get skinny (because I love all size 14 of me) I am a wee bit insulted. I am sure a lot of people look at my ticker and make the assumption that I am still fat. I have decided to go for a few more pounds, but have no desire to get any thinner than a size 12. That will result in my being in the BMI of 'overweight', and I am sure looks from plenty of much thinner people thinking "Why doesn't she lose some weight?".
These are my own feelings, and don't feel like you said anything to offend me. Those are just some bottled up feelings that I have, probably driven by my constant interactions on this board..
Peace, and good luck as you move toward making your goal...
Is this the article, Paula? I mean, really, there is seriously something amiss if one doesn't see Queen Latifah as an accomplished and sexy woman.
I was aware of the higher level of confidence/self-esteem that most large black women had over white women and totally envied that. So my therapist at the time, who was really into little pieces of paper with various affirmations on them that you could pull out of your purse as needed, drew a picture of a crown and, "I am a Nubian Queen." I knew of the word, Nubia, but not really it's history, so I looked it up. If I recall correctly, Nubia was an area of Egypt that produced a lot of very influential women who were Queens. And as an acknowledgement of their equality, and even superiority, to their King, their iconic images were always represented as being of equal size, side by side, to show their equal power. Even though the woman may have been much smaller in actual physical stature, they were envisioned as larger because of their position of respect. End of history lesson..
And I think that's what she was, at least partly, asking for. Or maybe we're both wrong, and she just wanted validation that there was nothing wrong with thinking this way, which I happen to think there is..
She did make this comment:.
And then at the end used a sad face. So I'd say it sufficiently bothered her enough to bring it here. But the "almost" word is a tad worrisome.
I think I said something similar in my earlier diatribe that rather than giving these judgmental thoughts all the power, learn to replace them with ones of compassion. Which is much more in line with someone who thinks of herself as a kind and caring person..
If this is a more common occurence of fat people getting thinner than I ever would have thought, I certainly want to be on guard against seeing any such developing attitudes in myself. it makes me shudder to think that I might come to the point of justifying judging fat women, once I no longer am one..
Thanks so much for sharing about your mother. I was married to a Diabetic & watched him die from complications it was horrifying. I was a young girl when I married him & had no idea what I would be a part of the next 10 years of my life.
I think it's so healthy for you to talk about it & write about it. I think you benefit greatly from it. I am so sorry you had to see your mothers illness. I looked at your ticker.
And I am really happy you are on Medifast & you will win the battle of being overweight..
Thanks again! You touched my heart. I too am here, not so much to look good, cause losing weight isnt going to help me there (lol) I dont want diabetes, I dont want the complications SCARY STUFF.
Hey Jorian. I LOVE human behavior, sociology & all the stuff LOL I stugggle between catagorising race ie East Indians more prone to heart attack & Diabetes & not sterotyping but generalising. I have been called on the carpet for it. I am nurse so I see some races as predesposed. I see some cultures with their norms but If I talk about it in some settings.
I have had people accuse me of generalisng. Its a slippery slope. I am really cautious about. anyway you made me think again. LOL WTG !..
I think there is a prejudism that comes with being fat. I have been passed over for jobs becuase people assume you are lazy when in fact I am a work a holic & overacheiver type..
I have had people say all you need to do is to work out to lose weight which would infurriate me as I was working out 2 hours a day & still 190 lbs. The first thing.
A personal trainor will say to you is diet is 80% of the battle to lose..
I have had a boss tell me I was lazy because I wanted a lapband. I wasnt lazy I was desperate. I have tried & failed EVERYTHING. MY shelfs looks like GNC or the back of.
A fashion magazine. Crack started to look good to me if it meant making the scale move.
Even 10 lbs. I was soooooooooo fraustarted. I had hit bottom when I started MF.
Which is one of the reason why I dont cheat. I WANT IT SO BADLY.
I hate assumption. I hate when people assume that I was 200 lbs because I didnt try to lose weigh or I didnt work at it. I was starving myself, low enegery & even lower self esteem. Please dont ever look at overweight people with anger or disgust. You dont know what is in their head & what they are doing...
Yes MaryAnn, that was the article I was talking about also..
Dave, yes.... it does depend on who is looking. But then I have seen articles where people refer to Beyonce as fat (WTH), and Angelina Jolie as sexy?? Angelina....Beautiful yes, but sexy???? But ribs and bones protruding out don't quite say sexy to me..
Latley, I didn't think fat disqualified anyone from the beautiful or sexy catagory. Barbie never has been my role model; and to continue to hold it up as the standard is the cause of much depression and plastic surgery around the world. Unfortunatly 'sexy' has become the porn star look. The shape of a sixteen year old boy (flat everywhere) with a "D" cup...
I dont think your her type either. LOL Since you are male & all..
I think history has shown that what is generally looked at as "sexy" varies from time period to time period. The anorexic looking models certainly don't look sexy to me either. But "sexy" is really a personal thing, not a democratic thing. I don't really think "sexy" has anything to do with the topic.
I think your thoughts and feelings when you look at Angelina Jolie are exactly what the OP is about. Some of us have natural non-PC thoughts about certain people we see. Is that wrong? Society as a whole may think so. But who are they to say a thought or feeling is right or wrong? Who are any of us to qualify someone's thoughts and feelings that way? Each of us has our own experiences to drive our natural thought processes. Only we are accountable for our own...
Yes she came out, last year or the year before. LOL.
Just like to tease ya a bit...
Shelley, I am so sorry for your loss, and I really appreciate your telling us about your mother. I believe that by sharing our pain as often as we need to, will ultimately lead to less pain and more joy in celebrating the life she was able to give you. And I don't doubt that she had regrets, but at some point I hope she was able to forgive herself enough and enjoy her time with you and the rest of your family..
I didn't raise my daughter, but when we did meet, in 1997, when she was 27, I felt immense guilt that I couldn't do all that I wanted to do for her because of the limitations of my size. I even felt guilty because she was a large woman, 5'10", size 2X, when all in her adoptive family were of typical size.
I just wanted to at least say that to you, Shelley, without further dominating the thread. I do have a hard time staying silent on issues I'm impassioned about..
About Queen Latifah's sexuality:.
And my favorite comment:.
No ones thoughts or feelings are 'wrong', we just have an opportunity to look inward and decide why we feel a certain way. That is the beauty of healthy debate. It helps us see the views of others, and decide why we feel as we do..
Is it because it is true, or is it because we have 'learned' what is beautful and sexy. It is tough enough to live in a country where what is considered to be sexy, beautiful, healthy, etc. Is not something that your can naturally become. I will never look like most of the women considered to be beautiful, but then who determined that was beautiful and sexy?? Whos standard is that? Who made that rule?.
There is a provocative article on MSN right now, about what women will do to get 'the look'. Although it seems off topic, I don't think it is. In our quest to define what is beautiful, we are squeezing out of women all of the things that make us unique beautiful creatures. All of this so people don't look at our 'flaws'. Well I think some of our'flaws' are what make us who we are..
My ex-boyfriend used to occasionaly mention that I could stand to have a nose job. My nose is wide by most standards. I went through my late teens thinking I had an ugly nose. When I met my husband 17 years ago, I mentioned to him rather lightly that I would be having a nose job. He says "Why, your nose is what makes you unique. It is a part of what makes you look like you.
Too this day, I have never considered my nose as ugly. Anyway, how many people are made to feel less than acceptable because they look different than what we decided attractive would be?.
Interesting article Mary Ann. I forgot about the Jodi Foster thing.
Perez Hilton is not always known for his accuracy. I am not sure if he wrote the article, he may have only supplied the picture. Oh well, It all sells the magazines, it's a money makin business. I think Brittany must think all press is good press.
I knew better than make a joke on this forum reguardless of it's reality. I was just trying to lighten things up. I am always suprised when people take me serious.
Hey and Mary Ann, I empathise with your situation. We all have family related pain we have to deal with..
When my 2 you died, I remeber someone telling me that we all have a cross to carry. So this person walks in a room with their cross & lays it down. They can choose any cross in the room. they look around and find the smalles cross they could find. They pick that one..
It was the cross they walked in with. Cross is a metaphor of course for our inner pain..
That actually helps ME with my perception so I dont have my own downward spiraling self pity. My experince in life is no different than any others person. It is different but it's the same too.
Dang, you think I had been drinking LOL..
My sis is a psychologist and she once told me, "It's ok to have thoughts - as long as you don't act on them". That being said, I'll have to admit I feel a great deal of urgency in myself to yell, "PUT DOWN THAT FRIED PEANUT BUTTER SANDWICH AND LIVE YOUR LIFE FOR AS LONG AS YOU CAN!" to people I see who are making unhealthy choices (by choice) and it's obvious it isn't a one-time thing. Not someone who is overweight, walking down the street, who-knows-how-they-got-that-way kind of person. I would think the same thing if I saw someone shooting up. At the same time, I would absolutely NOT yell that, or hint that, or suggest a diet plan to anyone. Anytime someone has done that to me in the past it has worked only to make me want to over eat to soothe the painful realization that people actually noticed I was hurting myself.
I can only hope that as I lose weight, tell people who ask how I'm doing it, and let everyone know how happy I am about it, someone else will join me in getting their life back. Short story long, I don't feel like a bad person for thinking people should enjoy their lives for a long as possible - if food is more important to you than being there for your family and the people you love (and let me stress again I am talking about people who choose not to be healthy), I don't think my thoughts are going to hurt you any...
I half expected you to bring up the Tyra Banks thing, where she was questioned & questioned people about beauty & weight. I like how she has the camp for girls to help.
With body image...
Yes Barb, I was thinking you had been drinking......
Only Perreir I swear..
I have my other water done so I am kicking back with my favorite.
Perrier. I will put it in a Margarita glass tomorrow & pretend LOL blend in..
I don't really feel like I'm an authority on any of this, DBB. I am pretty much just babbling and trying to understand more of what we're talking about. Certainly the advertising industry, Hollywood, etc. all play a part in what we are supposed to find beautiful, sexy, whatever. Young girls and boys are certainly affected by all of it. Look at how kid's clothing stores have changed.
Even Gap Kids. It's unreal. And if Jany or Johnny aren't wearing what the cool kids are wearing, they get shunned or picked on. How is that going to change? I have no clue. But it starts at a very early age.
Barbie looks like she's from the 1950's compared to Bratz...
I am certainly no authority either Dave, just speaking on some issues that I have wrestled with, and seen the young college women I work with wrestle with. Yes, I am babbling myself for sure, so let me sum up what I think on this quite interesting subject..
First, I think if your current weight makes you unhealthy, you should try and lose weight. I tried this for over 15 years without finding anything that worked, or maybe it was just me...... who knows. So when I see someone else who is overweight I have no idea where they are in their particular struggle. I can remember at about 25 and weighing about 160 pounds saying "I would NEVER let myself get THAT big. If I did, I want someone to sew my lips shut".
It just makes me very leery about passing judgement on anything..
Second, I generally cannot judge someones relative health or effort as it relates to their weight by looking at them. I know I know, we can't always control our thoughts, but at least I can 'check' myself it is happens. I think that is all that the original poster was attempting to do. (God bless her the way we hijacked this post)..
Lastly, I try to ignore all standards about what is or isn't acceptable based on looks. I have a disdain for how our media trivalizes women and fools us to linking so much of our worth as individuals with how we look, what we weigh, and what color lipstick we wear. I am just as 'girlie' as anyone else, I like my MAC makeup and Victorias Secret, but I don't let my looks define who or what I am. When I catch myself doing it, I try to correct it...
What a schizophrenic society we live in! We have the constant idealization of the "perfect body", the fashion industry which idealizes human coathangers and now manorexics, body-conscious clothing marketing to children, all smoothed along with hours and hours and HOURS of junk food advertisements, movie tie-ins with fast-food restaurants, the "hungry man" meal...no WONDER this issue is confusing! Look great, be thin, and eat fast food in your car 4 times a week. Crazy....
As for the fat issue - being obese is much more than simply packing in the food. Yes, if you eat too much, you gain weight. If you put in more calories than you expend, you will be large. But the reasons for BEING large staying that way, vice addressing it, are complex. If it was that easy, no one would be overweight. One might feel like telling obese people to "just stop eating", but saying such things certainly won't effect change in most people.
And as for "sexy" - there are people out there who find larger people very attractive. Others don't. Some people like the ultra-thin look. In fact, one of my friends finds skinny men "sexy". I personally don't! Others prefer brunettes.
P.s. I gained most of my weight due to medications I had to take because of a brain tumor I had. And, yeah, there were times when my husband would take me out to dinner when I couldn't handle things anymore, and I may not have made the right choices, and others may have been "offended" by my appearance, but I have no regrets. Thanks GOD my hubby was supportive, and not judgemental!!! For that, I will be truly grateful. Especially since, during that time, I heard my fair share of comments by people who were trying to be "honest" and "helpful" without knowing the cause of my weight gain...
Thanks. I will miss my mom everyday...and love and hate that I got to take care of her in the last years of her life. I think it is healthy to write and talk about her because she is always in my heart. Plus, I know she is my motivation...I am getting healthy for me and for her. Of course, I would like to look more attractive, but I want to be healthy more than anything else.
Hugs and smiles,.
MaryAnn...thanks for your response. I miss my mom, but I have such peace when it comes to it. I know the love our family shared and our last years together were such gifts. Yes, I wanted more years...more I am so thankful for the years I had. I just wanted to share a perspective of where the judgemental place in our heads may come from. My mom is my motivation on MF...I stay 100% for her because I know that getting to a healthy weight would be something she would want so much for me.
And the whole Perez Hilton article...Let me tell you, I can't stand that guy. I think his articles are funny and I like celebrity gossip just like the next, but well...for an openly gay man, you'd think he wouldn't so be hell bent on outing people in his own community. That aspect of his site just makes me ill. He should know better. Shame on him.
I know how you feel about not wanting to stay silent...I have made a career and a life about it. I also know that I have learned throughout the years to make sure I listen to the other side and search for common ground because then change might really happen.
I'd still like to thank the OP for making this thread because I think it caused a really wonderful discussion and debate.
See...that's one of the reasons I have an issue with Tyra. I think some of the things she does for women and body image are amazing...and I commend her for that. BUT...then she also has the America's Next Top Model show where she is part of the group that judges and criticizes women's bodies. It's a real disconnect for me. If I was a little girl...and saw her great shows on body image and self esteem...but then also saw her on ANTM saying how someone who is 140 lbs. is a plus size model and the critiques she gives of people's bodies on the show...I would sure leave pretty confused.
I would have much more respect for Tyra and her work with girls and women if she stopped doing her reality model show..
The media, of course, shapes how we think of other people and ourselves. The target consumer for "age defying" products is women over the age of 35. Less than 2% of movie and TV characters are over the age of 65, and they are generally portrayed in a negative light (and it is much worse for women than men). The result is that by far the greatest number of discrimination suits to the EEOC regard ageism, all age groups (from young children right up to the elderly) have negative feelings about the elderly, and those over 65 have the highest suicide rate by age group. The media equates beauty, success, intelligence, and worthiness of love with youth and physical beauty (which includes thinness). Due to our sheer numbers and buying power, as we Baby Boomers age the media's (and, therefore society's) feelings about the elderly are changing.
Frankly, if I think about it it's probably true my motivation for finally and permanently losing this weight has as much to do with wanting to be physically accepted than it does with wanting to remain healthy (gee, that class came in handy for something, I guess)...
Yes Maryann, this was the article I was referring to, and I see that dbb referenced it as well. And I agree, I think she's very sexy. I think sexiness is as much of an attitude as it is a body shape. It is also a reflection on a positive body image..
Dbb, I applaud you for your positive attitude and great self image. I know that you are a knock out at size 14, and will blow them away at a 12. I've only seen your picture, and can only imagine the way you probably walk. I'm sure when you walk into a room you turn a lot of heads, not just because of your appearance, but because of that "je ne s'ais quoi". You go girl!!..
Thanks for the backup Maryann. I've been openly accused of not being willing to "discuss", but I see it as my unwillingness to pursue an argument when someone seems fixed in their opinion. I appreciate your superior articulation of my point...
Some time ago I could read about an interesting concept in a book about the "fitness" industry....The author posted the(maybe not entirely serious opinion) that the diet and fitness industry are together in a conspiracy with the fastfood industry. Just in the way that the junkfood industry delivers the clients for the others....when then those clients dont succeed of course...they fall back to the first one....a steady circle of huge income for both.....
Not to talk about the media who then gets a huge chunk of both....who pays it all? You guess.....
Also after liberation of women...equal rights etc...I think the huge pressure on especially young women to look like a popsickle stick...sort of delivers a new tool to undermine our independence as a person...and our self concepts are damaged systematically....(nice new sabotaging of being equal).
Dont get me wrong...I am not talking about being healthy by moving our tush around and eating mindfully.....
If parents and teachers could work together to help girls to find a balance between outer influences and listening to their own bodies....talk about the issues...and not buying into all those beauty crazes that are out there...maybe that could change all of that ....as we know change is painful sometimes and takes patience....
Just some thoughts without really editing this post....
Have a great sunday all.....
It used to be that a healthy woman actually had shape!! They didn't look like Angelina Jolie, Paris Hilton, Nichole Richie....they had curves,,Marlyn Monroe is a prime example,the fashion industry and certain sports like gymnastics are what have put the push on women (and some men) to be ultra thin,,,,this in turn has led to major eating disorders in our young people,,disorders that follow them throughout life. Starr Jones looks awful since so much weight loss,,Queen Latifah is gorgeous in my book, Tyra Banks does not condone the ultra thin phase in fashion today, I applaud her for that, she , too , is a gorgeous woman. You can be fit and larger than what is termed acceptable by the diet/fashion industry...Good health comes in various sizes. I posted an article in the Off-Topic board a few weeks back, about BMI issues. There are so many things that make it a poor indicator of where we should be in terms of our weight. My goal weight of 139, (I stay around 136 in maintenance), put me right at the high end of healthy BMI...I wanted to lose more, but my Dr was already having fits over the amount I was losing,,,and he said no.
He explained if we get too thin, we have nothing in reserve to fight off colds, flu, etc. My original purpose for losing weight was because my father died at 57 from a heart attack,,(he was also a bad asthmatic), and had high blood pressure. He only carried about 20 pounds extra though, so was not a heavy person. When my sister was diagnosed as a "borderline" diabetic, I knew it was time for me to get my weight off, to avoid those issues, if possible,,of course, genetics may win out,,but I am going to give them a fight!.
I know this is a bit off the topic here,,,but this thread just caused me to have these thoughts...sorry for the rambling!..
Woweeee! No biggie on the "hijacking" to other but related topics. What a great discussion, everyone! I appreciate everyone's input, personal stories, ramblings, opinions... you all have very interesting insights. That's what makes diversity a great thing.
I think the most interesting perspectives are the ones about projecting, and that it's really about what's happening to you rather than the other person. Hit the nail on the head, exactly! I am not an idiot. I don't claim to know what's going on with a total stranger or think that my way (the Medifast way) is the cure-all for everyone's situation. It's where someone said that it's seeing the unhealthy choices that others make that I know I'VE made that I don't make any more. That there is a better way - a healthier way - to live life. And it IS a choice..
I clarified this once early in the thread, but I did want to say to those like MaryAnn that I do NOT act on my negative thoughts and that I AM a kind and caring person. I'm also a feakin' human being. We all have thoughts that pop into our head that we don't act on or question ourselves. Going through this program has been a big life change for me. And, as someone said, I'm surprised at the emotions that are changing in me and wondering if I'm crazy (what "nutrients" are in these Medifast meals, anyway? haha) or if anyone else is struggling with similar I'm-not-used-to-feeling-this-way experiences. As much as you slammed me for "judging" people of various persuasions (I have many gay friends, thank you very much), you were judging me for opening up my head and admitting that - even as an educated and enlightened adult - I'm having emotional struggles that all HUMANS have..
Our thoughts are our own. But as many of you have pointed out, there is the impact of what society says is beautiful or sexy or cool. I don't live in a bubble. I know that a lot of African-American women have different body types than white folks. I don't look at them the same. And yet I don't discriminate in a negative way, either.
Hmmm... But we all do that in one way or another. To think that you don't is to say you're not a human being with an individual brain full of feelings, emotions, and opinions..
LOVE where this topic has gone. LOVE all your insights. LOVE you all sharing your thoughts and opinions..
LOVE you guys. LOVE MF!..
Hugs back to everyone. That is why I love this board.
Oh yeah, Sberntein I just love your post! I couldn't agree more. The moment we let others define that the feminist movement was about hating men (never was), and not about the wellbeing of women. We lost the battle. Now we have a generation of women where too many define themselves by what they look like, instead of who they are inside. I thought we got past that in the 50's. Oh no, my radical 1980's college view are showing themselves ...
This is just another great example that weight-loss isn't just about changing our bodies. It is also about reshaping our minds and the way we think..
I also applaud the Laurel for having the courage to initiate this discussion.
It's always interesting to explore other viewpoints. Even though I may not agree with everything that was said here, it certainly gave me some things to think about...
Ever see the movie Soylent Green?.
And I never intended to judge you, Laurel, I just got a bit impassioned about some of the things you were saying, and the implications if we allowed our thoughts to go further without examing why we were thinking that way.
That hairdo in your avatar is slightly reminiscent of Angela Davis. One of my long time heroes, I guess going back more to the 70's. She spoke her mind and then some..
Well, going back to the original post. I hope I do not get to where I become intollerant of fat people. My poor mother is suffering because of her weight. Not in a lot of ways but in some way. Will she fall again at her house and hurt herself again? I worry.
I myself am so large. I haven't told her yet I am on Medifast and she hasn't said anything about my weight loss yet. I am waiting. I can't make her be ready. She will have to decide on her own.
How I found out about Medifast is I was shoe shopping. One lady was showing me a pair of boots she had found that were wonderful. They had a nice heel and she fell in love with them. I told her I'll be sticking with flats. She said yes, she was like that too at one time. That she had just finished MF.
Just that she had finished it. Dang that woman looked good and she was wearing heels! Hmmm...(I was thinking deeply). Well, luckily that woman took a moment to speak with me and put that seed in my head. She wasn't pushing it on me she just mentioned it.
A few months later I ordered mf. The box sat in my livingroom for a month. I couldn't do it. I wasn't ready. I sent the box back. Then I kept gaining...still thinking of that woman and her boots.
I ordered Medifast again and there hasn't been any going back! Thank goodness for that woman and just a few of her words...and not being pushy.
Will I be tollerant of large people in the future. Yes, because I know what it is like to be there and maybe one day I can mention MF. Maybe plant that seed for them too.
Thank you for the post!.
Maryann, I will neither confirm nor deny if I am an Angela Davis fanAs for the icon, when I saw it, it looked so much like me it was scary! Somtimes I actually do take my hair down and fix it up all high maintenance, but 90% of the time I wear the poof on the top of my head..
Thanks for the clarification, May Ann. I think there are a lot of topics on these boards that we get passionate about. I appreciate your perspective...
Wow, what a fascinating thread!.
I admit I had some of those thoughts after I'd lost a bunch of weight on MF.
They made me mad at myself. But they still popped in my head, arrggh.
I have always been very defiant in my defense of larger people (like MaryAnn said, you never know the back story about someone in fact that's true of almost all judgements we make of others). And also I agree Queen Latifah is hot..
But even knowing all that didn't stop those nasty thoughts from parading through my head!!!.
I agree with those who say I was really judging myself. But even if that's true, I don't like it. I don't want to judge myself that harshly either..
The good news is those icky thoughts were just a phase, I guess, because they are gone now... phew!.
For me, it has all been part of the complicated emotions of losing weight. Your mind and soul go through a lot of changes on this journey, especially if, like me, you have been trying to lose weight for decades.
I remember a thread I started once about being angry that some new friends thought I'd always been "thin." Talk about complicated! Proud of my progress, yet still resentful that I could be thought of as thin... thin people were the enemy!.
That thread, too, generated a lot of strong and interesting opinions..
So none of this is simple.... least not for me.
It's all part of the growing pains. Or "losing" pains, I should say...
No. I do not look at fat people and look down on them like I am some high and mighty person for successfully losing weight. They don't know what to do to lose weight, most diets do not work, and are expensive. Including this one. It's usually the people who are poor and all they can afford is the cheap, carby, sugary stuff to exist on..
If you want to help them then let them know what you are doing to lose weight in a nice way, and make sure you tell them how great it works. Remember that you were once that person and how would you have felt to have someone think of you in that way? :/..
Wow...there's a gross generalization if I ever saw one...
It's actually true. I've been researching diets/food for 2 years now from reputable sources and this is a BIG reason why so many are fat, and the poor are the worst hit.
BTW, how can it be a "gross generalization" when I said "most"? I did not say all...
Well because you made a very general comment about a significant population of people. I question your data - it sounds like an excuse. Since when do you have to qualify an entire group of people to call it a generalization?..
I have to jump in and agree with Pashta here, this has been very well-documented.
Here's just an example of the abundant literature on the subject. There is much research out there that reaches similar conclusions.
Obesity disproportionately burdens low-income, ethnic minority populations, said Rebecca E. Lee, PhD, of the Department of Health and Human Performance at the University of Houston, in Houston, TX and lead researcher on the study. The results of our study suggest that one reason may be that these populations have less access to healthy foods..
If you question the data, well... that's another issue.....
I'm sure there are studies about it - I'll take your word that they say what you said, but I still question the data. That's really not the point I was trying to make, though. Saying that most of the fat people we see out in public are poor people is indeed a gross generalization. I hang out in some pretty nice neighborhoods and I don't think most of those fat people are poor...
These links shall speak for me. The last one is what YOU are talking about, and it is a NEW phenomenon..
Leading causes of hunger and obesity are the lack of money to buy and the lack of easy access to high-quality, nutritious food. According to the federal Consumer Price Index, white bread costs less than wheat bread; regular ground beef costs less than lean and extra lean ground beef; and cola costs less than orange juice. Furthermore, so-called "junk" food is easier to obtain in low-income, inner city neighborhoods than nutritious food. Low-income neighborhoods are far more likely to have only convenience stores and bodegas in which unhealthy food is typically more readily available than fresh fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and lean meats than wealthier neighborhoods, which are more likely to have supermarkets and farmers' markets with a wider array of quality, nutritious food..
As I said in my previous post, you're focusing on the wrong part of the statement I was referring to. Show me a study that says most of the fat people we see are poor. That is what you said, isn't it?..
Well, I won't argue with that... I hang out in some pretty poor neighborhoods.....
That is a really interesting point, Dave. I have been looking a little bit (cuz I am an Internet research junkie).
I can find all kinds of discussions about the percentage of obesity within various economic classes (several studies suggesting that the gap is narrowing and more affluent people are becoming obese, BTW) but I can't find anything yet that addresses the percentage of the obese nationally who fall below the poverty line - meaning, in a group of 100 obese people, how many are poor, how many middle class, and so on.
I do not see anything yet to support a contention that a majority of obese people are poor...
Unfortunately, all economic groups are being effected by this epidemic, but in general it is far harder for someone in the lower income ranges to eat healthy and this sadly includes the elderly population. I never understood why people with money (especially stars) would have any weight issues. With that sort of money I would have a personal trainer and chef!!!.
A bit off the subject. I spent yesterday afternoon watching shows about bariatric surgery. Two of the stories were about teens getting the surgery and the stats show that if the curve continues that in 5 years 1 in 4 teens will be obese and in 10 years more than half will be obese. This is sad and very very scary!!!.
I was so sad to hear them say that surgery may me the only answer for them!!!..
I actually said that it is "usually" the culprit.. being poor. Stop arguing with me now. I will no longer respond to you on this issue. Thanks...
Who's arguing? I simply said you made a gross generalization, which you did. Now that you can't back it up, you throw it back at me saying I'm arguing? You said it, not me...
I totally agree with you Pashta!! While being overweight is an epidemic in all economic groups, I agree that the poor are more at risk. Fatty, high carb pre-mixed foods are cheaper to get and lack of Dr. care are just some of the contributing factors. I think we can all agree our grocery bill has gone up since starting MF! There are high, middle income folks have weight issues as well. But they have better opportunities to improve their health if they so see fit. Education, insurance, nutrionalists, etc...
She didn't say that poor people are more at risk. She said that most fat people are poor. Usually = more often than not = most. That is a gross generalization, and unless she expects us all to believe everything we read in a public forum, I am simply questioning that statement's validity. Do you follow me around just to try and post the opposite of what I say? Sounds like a fun hobby!..
Mmm, no, we don't all agree on that one, either. I spend less now and I know a lot of other members here do, too. It just seems expensive because you shell it all out at the beginning of the month at one time, but really, at $250 a month that is a little over $60 a week - you actually spent less than that on groceries before MF?.
Besides, when you take out the $4 lattes a few mornings a week, drive-through snacks on a whim, pop and candy out of the machine in the afternoon when you get a little slump at work, and factor in eating one nice chicken breast for dinner instead of a WHOLE PIZZA, the numbers are really pretty attractive.
I spend somewhere around $8 a day for Medifast most months. I could barely get a decent lunch out downtown for that...