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My question is: How many users are on Match.com?.

My 2nd question is: I saw in one of the other threads a few users disagreeing about the above topic. One person inferred that it's the man's responsibility to do the asking/pursuing/etc, and another person found that belief system to be outdated.I just thought this might be a good topic for discussion since it was apparent to me that other ivillage users are passionate about the subject.I used to not care either way. If I liked someone, or saw potential in them, I had no qualms approaching them, or asking them out. But, I've since changed my opinion on that. While I see no problem with approaching guys and pursuing them whatsoever, I don't think I'm going to be doing that any more. It is my honest experience that the men that I've pursued have appreciated me less than the men that pursue me.

But then, that's just me. What, if any, are your experiences?..

Comments (23)

Bottom line, eveyone's gotta do what works best for them.  For me, the traditional male/female roles at the beginning work best.  I used to pursue men and it never worked for me and I felt so frustrated about it...but I felt I "should" because I'm a feminist and thought that should carry over to dating.  But I've realized that you can't change biology and I am more comfortable with being receptive to a guy's active pursuit of me (the Mars/Venus thing). I've accepted that is what works for me, and no longer beat myself up about it.  Of course while there are general biological differences they vary in strength from person to person so not every man or every woman is going to feel the same pull at the same strength towards the traditional roles.  So again, I feel it's an individual choice, and it might take some trial and error for each person to get to that point of what works for them..

For me, it's not so much about the men appreciating it more if they have to work for it, it's about me feeling a guy's interest clearly through his actions, which in turn makes me more interested..

Sheri.

 ..

Comment #1

I haven't noticed much difference between me making a move or the guy making the move. One guy was pushy & bossy, another time one was not very forward, both asked me out, & both are now gone. I've asked out guys that weren't interested & in my current (& terrific) situation, I made the first move(s) I didn't feel any better or worse about a relationship (thru Match.com) that started with a guy asking. It's "nice," but not a requirement for me. My definition of first move ranges from full on asking, would you like to go to this event with me, to just heavy (& calculated) flirting. Like continually positioning myself next to the object of affection & getting noticed, (until he thinks it was his idea.) I look at it like, "you'll never know if you don't ask".

Good distraction frees us from emotional pain, bad distraction gives you a mouth full of whizz. ~~~ Guru Tugginmypudha..

Comment #2

So does that mean if the woman doesn't have to work for it she doesn't appreciate it? I've dated guys who did all (and I mean ALL) of the pursuing, and not only did I really dislike the dynamic I honestly just wasn't that interested in them. I just kept going out with them because they kept asking. My ex husband was one of them. He had to work REALLY hard to pursue me because I didn't have a phone of any kind and I rarely checked my email back then. He basically had to figure out where I would be at what times and show up there. I was so tired of getting dumped (by guys who had pursued me, just to be clear) that I just went along with it.

I didn't really like him that much. He won by default. A few months ago I went out with a guy I met online. I wrote him first and asked him out the first two times. After that the pursuing was pretty equal between us.

I wound up breaking it off because even though we got a long really well and were attracted to each other we had zero sexual compatibility. We're still friends. I asked him what he thought of the whole idea that girls should never ask a guy out first or call him first, and he said it's bull. He said most guys will back off if they don't think a woman is interested. They fear rejection just like anyone else, and if he's always making all the moves then it's hard to tell whether or not she is interested.

So far everything is great and we are still actively pursuing each other. The kind of guy who will latch onto a woman like a pit bull and keep pushing for a relationship (thru Match.com) whether she seems interested or not is NOT The kind of personality I want in a guy. I don't adhere to any other gender roles, so why would I adhere to that one?..

Comment #3

Just wanted to respond to the question in your first line:  no, that will not generally be the case, because as a rule women aren't biologically wired to pursue in the same way men are..

And for the record, I don't like the pitbull type who won't take no for an answer either...but I do like a man who is confident enough in himself to take a chance and call even if he's unsure...so somewhere in between your example of the guy who thought you were out of his league and pitbull man ;-)..

But like I said in my previous post, we all need to find what works for us. .

Sheri..

Comment #4

"Just wanted to respond to the question in your first line: no, that will not generally be the case, because as a rule women aren't biologically wired to pursue in the same way men are."I think it's more a matter of conditioning than biology. Otherwise these standards wouldn't be changing. I think it's human nature to not value something as much if it falls into your lap. This true for women as well as men and not just when it comes to relationships. There are always going to be people who insist on hanging onto the "old ways" when it comes to expectations of gender roles. There are always going to be people who insist it's just better...

Comment #5

Interestingly enough, I used to think that was the case also but the more reading I do on the subject, the more I'm convinced that there are real biological differences between the genders that affect our inter-personal relationships, and that social conditioning can only go so far towards changing those biological wirings.  It's kind of ironic...I've actually only come to understand and appreciate the "old ways" in recent years, because of the research I've read about that indicates biological reasons for them (e.g. oxytocin's role in why women get more attached through sex than men do).  I used to poo-poo them quite emphatically ;-)..

Sheri.

 .

 ..

Comment #6

The 'new ways' and associated social conditioning have only been around since about the 50's, the 'old ways' and 'biological hardwiring' for time immemorial. As a totally independent and self-reliant, free-thinking and empowered woman, I used to believe I would successfully navigate the dating (online dating with Match.com) and relationship (thru Match.com) world by taking the bull by the horns and pursuing, asking out, initiating, etc... With age comes experience, and just like my parents get smarter the older I get, I'm now inclined to go with the idea that the 'old ways' of men doing the pursuing after a healthy dose of encouragement from the women a la a modified 'new way' works best in most situations..

 CL-Breaking Up Is Hard to DoCL-Understanding MenCL-Ask the dating (online dating with Match.com) DoyenneRead This First:  How to Get Over Your BreakupWe waste time looking for the perfect lover, instead of creating the perfect love.  Tom Robbins..

Comment #7

People used to say women couldn't do lots of things because they were just different from men. I think that's a whole lotta bs. Sitting back and expecting men to do all the work is great if you don't ever want to take any risks though.And for the record, I've had sex with plenty of men without forming a romantic attachment (I won't say emotional because some of them I had very strong feelings for as friends) and so have many other women I know. Maybe many of them won't admit it because it's not seen as socially acceptable for women, but it happens all the time. Both men AND women release oxytocin during sex. I'd love to see scientific research concluding that women shouldn't ask men out though.

Ever heard of the Kinsey scale?..

Comment #8

"The 'new ways' and associated social conditioning have only been around since about the 50's, the 'old ways' and 'biological hardwiring' for time immemorial."Wrong. There are and have been several matriarchal societies that prove your theory false...

Comment #9

We must be reading the same books. Have you read "The Female Brain"? This whole oxytocin discussion made me get the book out again, and I found some interesting passages."...we also know that oxytocin is naturally released in the brain after a 20-second hug from a partnersealing the bond between the huggers and triggering the brain's trust circuits. So don't let a guy hug you unless you plan to trust him.""...if high levels of oxytocin and dopamine are circulating, your judgement is toast. These hormones shut the skeptical mind down."She goes on to discuss oxytocin and vasopressin in men. All terribly interesting. I like understanding the science of it all.

But like you, I think it all works better if the man pursues. And this was a hard-learned lesson for me...

Comment #10

And as we've found out more about the genders many of the old assumptions have been overturned which is great.  But that doesn't mean that NO differences exist..

I'm more than happy to take risks, if they have a chance of workingdid you miss the part of my posts where I mentioned that I used to pursue all the time?  It just hasn't and doesn't work for me and I'm comfortable with admitting that now.   I'm glad you're comfortable with what works for youas I've said throughout this thread, each of us needs to come to that conclusion for ourselves.  I mean no disrespect to what works for anyone elselive and let live, KWIM?.

Yes, both genders do secrete oxytocin, but it affects the genders differently..

And levels of the hormone vary by person, at least according to what I've read.  That's why most women are affected but not every woman.  Heck I wish I could have sex without getting attached, it would make my life much easier, LOL (I think I mentioned that on the other board where you posted about that topic).  I'm glad to know there's a biological reason for it, though, and that it's not just lack of will power or whatever..

Sheri.

 ..

Comment #11

No, I'll have to check that book out, sounds interesting..

Sheri..

Comment #12

If it hasn't worked for you then I think you should do whatever does work and there's nothing wrong with that. I just take issue with the "experts" who say a woman should never make the first move or call first or any of that crap. There may be some biological differences between the genders, but our hard-wiring is not as binary as we have always thought. Transgendered people's brains work the same as the gender they identify with, not the gender of their body. And many people fall somewhere inbetween...

Comment #13

Hmm, that's an interesting issue...I wonder if there's some chicken/egg stuff going on there though.  As in, perhaps the reason the transgendered person has chosen to identify as the other gender is because they were born with a higher than usual level of the other gender's hormones, etc..

I do agree there's a continuum or a spectrum, and as the recent case of the runner from South Africa demonstrates, sometimes there's no clear answer as to the question of whether someone is male or female, even. .

Fascinating stuff, that's for sure..

Sheri..

Comment #14

LOL, ain't it the truth?  Love the part about your parents getting smarter, LOL, mine too, how DID that happen?.

I agree with the healthy dose of encouragement part too btw...I don't think playing hard to get is necessary or a good idea..

Sheri..

Comment #15

Ultimately, it's a matter of doing what works. I used to be the one to initiate the pursuing, "dated like a man," etc, I had zero issue with approaching a man and asking him out. But it wasn't working. Oh, I'd date, sure, but nothing of significance. Although I'm very successfully integrated into a male-dominated career, the same method wasn't working in my personal life. So I changed it up a bit, learned to encourage without being the one to do all the work in the dating (online dating with Match.com) aspect, and that's worked wonderfully.

So doing it simply because one can, doesn't necessarily mean one should. And that's individual for everyone. If someone finds themselves doing the pursuing and it's not working, there's nothing wrong with changing that to being encouraging and letting the other person pick up the pursuing. Conversely, if a someone is hanging back and insisting on being pursued (either through principle or fear) and that's not working, well, it really doesn't take rocket science to figure out that doing more of the pursuing may lead to success.I don't relate to what's so hard about that..

 CL-Breaking Up Is Hard to DoCL-Understanding MenCL-Ask the dating (online dating with Match.com) DoyenneRead This First:  How to Get Over Your BreakupWe waste time looking for the perfect lover, instead of creating the perfect love.  Tom Robbins..

Comment #16

There's actually a really long thread about this on a dating (online dating with Match.com) forum on another site. The OP, a guy, wrote this about the "rule" that women shouldn't pursue men. I haven't read the whole thread but so far the only ones agreeing with that idea are women:"To be honest, I THINK ITS A BUNCH OF BULL!! Its disrespectful to men. Its controlling and manipulative, and demeaning to women. Games are for children, not for grown-ups who want to have healthy, meaningful relationships. The belief that women are so powerless that they somehow need to trap a man is sexist, even if it is a woman who espouses this belief.

We are human beings with the same vulnerabilities and insecurities women have. (That's right - I said it - we are just as insecure as you are when it comes to the chase)In my opinion, Its advice like this that gives women a bad name. (I'm sticking up for the ladies here, so don't flame me guys) This is why some men dont trust them, dont respect them, think of them as superficial and call them controlling ****es. Many men suspect that some women (NOT ALL!) behave in a certain way until their interest is peaked, and then once theyre hooked, women drop the demure act and become needy and demanding.I think that deliberately making a man feel rejected or inferior in order to make him pursue a woman is sick. Would you like to be treated this way? I know I wouldnt.

(This is simply my opinion folks, and you don't have to agree with it)Now Im not saying that I think it's perfectly fine to go up to a guy at a party and say , You have a great buttlets go back to my place and screw our brains out, or to call someone you like five times a day even when he doesnt call you back. Thats not owning your power or being an independent womanits being obnoxious and insensitive. Same thing goes for the guys - being obnoxious and overbearing will certainly turn a woman off.Ladies - You dont like it when men treat you in that manner do you? What makes you think they would like it any better? But it's ridiculous to pretend youre some quiet little Victorian flower with no feelings of your own, or do a Scarlet OHara imitation in the hopes that a man will be intrigued by your mystique. Be yourself - WE LIKE YOU THAT WAY! Its much less exhausting, and in the end, youll know the man loves you for who you are, not who he thinks you are."..

Comment #17

I can see why you posted that, but I don't really think it applies in the context with which I posed the question. i'm not insinuating that women need to play games (i.e. "act demure," or pretend you're someone you're not to "get the guy," and then when he gets comfortable show him your "true colors."), which is what I gather from the response you posted. I personally think you should always be yourself. be the life of the party; flit around the roomi just happen to think that women shouldn't APPROACH men. if he notices you and approaches you first, great.

Again, this is just what has worked best for me when I consider all my past experiences. and, I personally like it when the man takes initiative.i am DEFINITELY not suggesting that i, or anyone for that matter, make a man feel "inferior" and/or "rejected" in order to make him feel insecure in his "chase" (and by doing so, begin a cat-and-mouse relationship (thru Match.com) of games). I sincerely hope you didn't get that vibe from my original post (knowing that you didn't write that, it would be silly to assume that that particular passage was in response to anything i've said).but I really DO appreciate your posting this, because it is great to get a man's perspective, and the post that you copied was certainly one with a clear POV. =)..

Comment #18

I felt the same way as you did reading that man's post. Especially:"The belief that women are so powerless that they somehow need to trap a man is sexist, even if it is a woman who espouses this belief. Men arent animals to be lured and domesticated...I think that deliberately making a man feel rejected or inferior in order to make him pursue a woman is sick."** To me, waiting to be asked out is a far cry from trying to trap a man or reject him. It sounds to me like this man has had some really bad experiences with women, plus, this response was taken from a long thread that must have been discussing other topics including women approaching men.**This sounds an awful lot like it came from AskMen...I find that board to be very angry toward womenI find many of the posts shocking and surprising in this regard...

Comment #19

You said that so much better than I could have! thank you! =)..

Comment #20

**This sounds an awful lot like it came from AskMen...I find that board to be very angry toward womenI find many of the posts shocking and surprising in this regard. <<< I'm blocked from it now at work, but I was really enjoying their insights. It was certainly important to take some advice & toss others right out. Just like these sites, some people are crazy, or blinded by their own rage at the other sex. (I do it here too. When someone says they've been married 3 times & they know how to have a good relationship? hahahah) I liked reading what men wanted from a relationship, what they expected out of it.

What was not important at all. The more I read, the more similar we seemed. Men want the same things women want, it just might look a little different. Comfort, security, trust, honor, respect, love. (Like new snow tires mean he's thinking of your safety & actually caring what happens to you.

Some things just don't get to be supported. I appreciated the bluntness that men use. The site helped me define what would work for me & what didn't apply to my life. My goals are my own & don't need to be sanctioned by other people. (Like they like to go on about the 3 date using Match.com rule, or others will say, No sex "too soon" means this & that.

Nothing gets "solved" because it is such a personal experience.) We wouldn't need to date, if we were all automatically compatible. ~~~ I agreed with the final assessment: Be yourself - WE LIKE YOU THAT WAY! Its much less exhausting, and in the end, youll know the man loves you for who you are, not who he thinks you are." It seems to me the trapping was in response to someone else. Where was this original thread?.

Good distraction frees us from emotional pain, bad distraction gives you a mouth full of whizz. ~~~ Guru Tugginmypudha..

Comment #21

"Some of what bothers me about these Ivillage boards, is that not everyone needs to have "support" for what they have chosen. Some things just don't get to be supported. I appreciated the bluntness that men use."I agree with this. I too love men's directness and bluntnessin real life as well as on message boards. And yes, you do have to take the good with the bad. But whenever I have read it, especially in the last six months, it just seems so overall negative, so attacking (especially men attacking other men), so mistrustful of women.

And I suppose men feel they are misunderstood by us. But I don't know if the post in question came from AskMenI jumped to conclusions.And yes, there are posters on iVillage that definitely need some straightening out, but being too "blunt" here gets you banned!..

Comment #22

It isn't. It's from the forums at plentyoffish. Pretty even mix of males and females. With only one or two exceptions, the only ones who said they believe women shouldn't pursue men were women...

Comment #23


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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