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Does VitaminShoppe Weight Gainer actually work?

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My first question is: Does VitaminShoppe Weight Gainer actually work?.

My next question is: Decided I need to pack on a bit of mass over christmas, so I opted for a 3 week stack with no gear. You may be slightly suprised at the initial results!!!.

The stack..

2 weeks ago:-.

300iu EPO ED (10 Days).

Started on Monday:-.

First thing in AM on waking 2iu GH + 2 SAN Endotest.

45mins later 5 iu Insulin.

Mid afternoon 850mg Glucophage.

With pre workout meal - 2 Endotest.

Immediately post workout ( or equivalent time on non-training days) 33.3mcg LR3IGF-1..

Last thing at night 20mg Nolvadex..

Clenbuterol at 100mcg EOD.

...the result.

6lbs in 5 days!!!.

NB - Please be warned this is 'timed polypharmacology' at an advanced level and not to be used by drug novices. These are dangerous combinations of some highly potent substances that used incorrectly can result in death, even in such low doses..

A careful monitoring of diet is essential at all times...

Comments (31)

Your question was: Does VitaminShoppe Weight Gainer actually work?.

EPO is erythropoeitin which is the hormone that signals the bone marrow to produce more red blood cells. However the full effect is not felt for 6-8 weeks as the new blood cells need time to mature..

The reason for the placement in the stack is as a support system builder. The new red blood cell count will start to hit peak effect just at the end of the 3 weeks of GH/Slin/IGF, thus providing a network to supply the new muscle with the blood supply (& therefore nutrients) required to sustain the extra mass. I should know by the end of January how much of the gain is sustainable..

EPO is only added in this stack to provide the blood building effect that is usually incubent with an elevated androgen count (i.e:- test)..

Extreme care does need to be used with EPO however as it is one substance (along with insulin & diuretics) that can actually actually kill you if you get it wrong. It is responsable for many of the deaths of Tour de France cyclists over the last 5 or 6 years.[Hence the warning, which I cannot stress strongly enough].

Just to clarify to any readers who are not familiar with me, I have won the Class 1 Mr England twice, the class 1 Mr UK twice and competed in the Mr Universe for the last four consecutive years...

Comment #1

I see said the blind man.

LOL I thought it had something to do with vast quantities of cardio and therefore some sorta fat loss plan..

Thanks for the warning dudes,but i`m not even remotely tempted..

Comment #2

Whats the role of the clen in the stack neil mate?.

Alot of this will be gobbledeygook for many of our members.. some of it is to me!! lol.

Can you go through each item in the stack for us and just give us a small explanation as to it's role in the stack - nothing complex just what you hope each thing will give you! - id just like all our members to see how complex things can get but also how they are appraoched intelligently and planned out fully with your health in mind not just gains, rather than just taking soemthing cos it sounds cool and you read on the internet jay cutler took it!.

Also, 6lbs in 5 days, thats alot, but considering:.

- GH isnt a masive dose.

- no test/steroids.

- igf1 produces very small quality gains.

- you state that epo wont really be at full effect till week 6ish??.

Can you give us your opinion on where the gains are from?.

Also, how is your diet during this stack? is it clean? have you upped calories a little/none/massively?.

Sorry if I'm asking for an essay here mate, but for our members (me included) having these opinions from a universe competitor is xmas come early!!!..

Comment #3

Excellent question mate. On the face of it, it looks a very simply stack. However the science of synergism is anything but simple so no probs Lee mate. I'll try keep it in English too!! LOL.

GH - Fat burning plus Lean Muscle gain..

Insulin - Increased glycogen & protein storage plus synergistic effect on GH in the liver for conversion to IGF-1..

Endotest - Natural test booster (It rocks big time! Dooiing!!).

Glucophage - Increase Insulin sensitivity and assists in role of glycogen storage, so the storage effect froim the insulin use is more towards the muscle cells & less toward fat cells.

{Extreme care needed when combining glucophage with insulin as increases chance of going hypo - thats NOT good!!}.

IGF-1 - Increased nitrogen retention plus satelite cell prolifferation (sp?) Shot is localised for specific targetting of weaker bodyparts. Specifically I'm trying to fill out the hole created when I tore my pec..

Nolvadex - lower estrogen levels to give a more favourable androgento estrogen ratio - needed for optimal GH effect. Plus a secondary positive effect on HTP axis..

Clenbuterol - has a cross reaction effect with T4 (shit I forgot to mention the 100mcg T4 ED!! - bugga!! ), assisting to convert T4 to T3 at a rate more typical of your bodies own specific ratios, therefore giving a double thyroid hit..

The T4 is in their as it has been shown to provide a synergistic effect with GH helping to potentiate the gains..

Your right about me looking after my health. I always advocate Detoxes Post Cycles, and this is the reason I use the Synegistic interactions of substances to provide greater gains than just using 2000mg test per week..

The substances are more dangerous, if used incorrectly, but, again, that is why I research so much BEFOREHAND. I have never taken anything and then read up on it afterwards; I always read up first, then apply the knowledge intelligently..

The diet has been changed, mainly in the almost complete elimination of dietary fats between 2 hours before the Insulin shot & 6 hours after (its approx 8-10 grams only, so as to avoid bodyfat accumulation, as insulin is indescriminate in it's storing capacity, everything is shuttled across). During this time the calories removed in the way of fats are replaced by carbs & proteins. This is nothing more than a carb blend & whey Isolate drink, sipped throughout the morning..

Which is where the initial gains have come from the increased carb storage & subsequent water that is held; but this is the plan the first week will see a bodyweight gain from carbs and water, the 2nd & 3rd weeks will see new lean muscle tissue being laid down, along with a little more carbs and water (guesstimate at 4lbs per week) then 4th through 8th week the EPO's effect will start to hit peak effect to provide the support system network to assist the body in maintaining the new muscle tissue; roughly 3-4 lbs of water will come out at this point leaving an overall gain in the region of 10lbs - WITHOUT GEAR!!!!.

I will have 2- 3 weeks off after the GH/Slin/IGF cycle (No PCT needed as no negative HTP effecting substances utilised) At which point i'll reassess the situation.

Sorry it's a bit long but, as I said, it's far from a 'simple stack'.

Hope this gives the info you were after!?!..

Comment #4

Excellent info there mate!.

There really is ALOT to this bodybuidling lark!! lol.

Now, if I was to nip down to the gym, ask johnny random steroid user what sust does they wouldnt be able to tell me!!!..

Comment #5

Yep, but apparently I'm only 'Making Progress' LOL.

Merry Christams all & have a MASSIVE new Year!!..

Comment #6

Well, obviously from his posts on here, neil knows his stuff, and i'm not questioning his validity of that course. your body, your choice. however, I would like to emphasise neils' own point. this is his stack, designed by him for him. please don't anyone be under the impression that this kind of stack is necessary. at any level.



A very good friend of mine, who is very knowledgable on bodybuilding, and who neil also knows, puts it best. bodybuilding is a relatively simple process made overcomplicated by far too many people...

Comment #7

Exactly BW mate!.

However, the somewhat sad fact is that many people , with a lot less knowledge and experiance than myself use this type of stack, on top of AAS, but with 2-3 times the dosage!!!!.

The point of the post was to highlight that Large doses are not always the best way forward; and that smaller doses, combined with sufficient knowledge can work just as good, and is easier to manage adverse reactions.

I must admit, I did have doubts as to wether to post this up as I thought some might take it as a 'how too..' type of post (which is isn't!). And if the moderators feel it's a bit too much/too risky, then I will understand perfectly if the decision to delete the thread is taken..

PS - You doin' the NEast again this year? If so, I guess i'll see ya there mate!!..

Comment #8

This is a great post for anyone who is unaware of what level of gear use competitive bodybuilders are at. it shows 2 sides of the coin in my opinion, a very technical approach by NeilR and then what I belive to be a very much no bullsh*t theres no need for all that approach by bodyworks..

These 2 guys are both high level NABBA competitors and are both BIG dudes who know their sh*t..

It shows that neither person is telling the other they are wrong, they just belive their ways are correct. it also shows that both take their own health very seriously!.

Bodyworks - given NeilRs goals/reasons for choosing the cycle he has, from your point of view.. IF he had asked your advice on how best to acheive these goals, what cycle would you have advised him to follow?.

Id just like our members to see a flipsisde.. IF thats what you would suggest..

Me personally, although I am at ease with NeilRs cycle, id be sh*ttin me pants at the thought of it and cant ever see myself contemplating that type of cycle!! thats not because I think it's wrong.. just for me as I am at present... if I could get lean gains from a cycle of prop/winny/var then why waste alot of money and take alot of risks!! so it's not gonna turn me into ronnie coleman... but then not much is! lol - but maybe once I'm competing at the level NeilR is my thoughts may have changed!..

Comment #9

Small update on progress..

Weighed myself again the other day, and , as I guessed I am another 4lbs up..

Giving a 10lb gain in 12 days, without any AAS. And I'm still getting 3 hours of cardio per week!!.

Everything is going according to plan.

Which does beg the question, as Lee pointed out earlier; that in spite of , what many may cosider a flawed approach i.e Low dose, Nolvadex & Cardio - all of which are 'supposed' to restrict gains, would I have gained 20lbs had I doubled the dose (as many do!), eliminated the cardio & left out the Nolvadex???.

Answer = NO.!.

So why do people opt for higher doses????.

I'll leave you to decide for yourselves........

As an adjunct to Lees post above; I will openly admit to being somewhat in awe of BW's physique and have a tremendous ammount of respect for him and his achievements. And as such would never be anything more than inquisitive as to his point of view on a topic, in order to expand my own points of view.

After all, the blinder man leaves the blindfold on, instead of taking it off!!..

Comment #10

Honestly, i'd say how much living tissue can you realistically expect to grow on a fully grown adult in 3 weeks ? .

Take whatever you like, growing takes time. neil does know his stuff, without doubt, however, for me combining glucophage or metformin and insulin is asking for trouble. combining igf and epo on top of that, it's not worth the risk for a zinc plated trophy in my book. I spoke out on this topic because I have a pretty good understanding of the problems caused by diabetes (family members), and doing this cycle to gain what, ain't worth it for me..

Some people will do more than this, but I don't feel it's necessary...

Comment #11

Wow, a post showing a high level bodybuilder (a big bugger at that) showing concerns over health! maybe this will dispel some of the rumours about just how much bodybuilders care for their health..

The point of how much tissue can be built over 3 weeks is a good one. we all know that in reality it's not alot. (2lb a week is seen by many as fantastic).

Alot of filling out can be done in 3 weeks I think, which in the world of bodybuilding, that extra fullness and weight can help mentally spur your enthusiasm and training forward! - not to mention helping with the big lifts! so, although it may not be actual muscle tissue itself, the muscles do appear bigger and training itself it's helped by the process.... in my humble opinion..

As you can guess.. I love these types of posts... it's shows just how complex lifting metal bars can get..

Hopefully in a few weeks we can get a good look back from NeilR on this course and get his final opinions on it..

Again I have to side with bodyworks on this one and say that my opinion is that such a complex course as this really is frightening to me! but again thats not to say that Neil is wrong... just that everyone has a different approach to lifting metal bars..... and yes it's amazing what we all go through in the hunt for them tin cups!!!!.

Moving the topic on.... Ronnie Coleman... the sheer size/mass/fullness in my opinion this topic hints at what I have "heard" about his methods in the past.... basically lots of synthol (all the pros do it) and insulin are what provided the massive growth spurts... again I'm not knocking him... hes still alive and kicking and I'm sure he will be for many many years to come...

And then soon after hes hunched over a plate of chicken and rice nearly falling asleep.......?????.

Any comments/opinions? am I talking out my @rse???..

Comment #12

I actually think he's hunched over his chicken and rice, PRAYING, as he's a very religious man (apparently).

Difficult to gauge any signs of being Hypo coz the usual signals are a feeling of weakness, extreme thirst, sweating and rapid heart rate....which are all (unfortunately) also symptoms of lifting heavy ass weights in 100 degree temperatures..

Also, harping back to the lean tissue issue (no pun intended). Actual lean tissue acrual in a three week period is likely to be less even than 2 lb per week, closer to 1/2 lb per week ( actual protein filaments); lean MASS ( which would include the extraneous water/plasma would be nearer the 2-3 lb per week mark, which was why I stated earlier that the predominance of the gains would be from the increased carb/water retention...

Comment #13

Just finished my 20 day GH/Ins/IGF portion of the stack and have leveled off bodyweight wise. However, I noticed I am slightly leaner than last week. Which could be from either.

1:- My body becoming accustomed to the substances and a small ammount of water retention subsiding;.

2:- The extra cardio I've had this week, 6 hours instead of the usual 3..

3:- The EPO beginning to build to it peak effect, giving a slight ammount of extra fullness to the muscles, which subsequently give the 'illusion' of being leaner..

4:- A combination of the above 3 factors..

My next three weeks will entail assisting my body in the building of the support sytems required to maintain the gains. Obviously the EPO will be providing the blood volume helping provide the new mass with the extra nutrient. So my intention is to increase (slightly) the ammount of protein carbs & essential fats so the nutrients are present. Cardio will stay in, to assist in the transport of the nutrients and I will slightly increase the volume used within my workouts, although I have yet to decide weather I will opt for a few extra reps per set and keep the number of sets the same or wether to keep the reps as is and add a set or two to each bodypart..

From there-on I will begin my AAS cycle..

But for now I am 242lbs at 5'11" with separation in most bodyparts (albeit soft looking). If I can hold this bodyweight for the next three week my target will be to get to 266lbs over an 8-10week course. The structure of which, I am already working on..

But you know me, guys - Everythings for a reason!!!..

Comment #14

Ok, final page of this cycle..

Almost 3 weeks since end of the cycle & I re-weighed myself again tonight. Still @ 242lb in same condition. So overall, pretty damned pleased with it..

Start phase 2 on monday..........

Comment #15

Thats cool bud!.

Most of what youve saids been over my head,but excellent thread!.

Night be a dumb question,but why did you want to try a gearless stack?.

(just noticed we got rep buttons-coolio-repped ya)..

Comment #16

Not dumb at all mate, opted for no-gear because I had just come off an 18-20 week dieting period of constant AAS use and I was looking at Normalising my HTP axis, whilst still gaining a bit of mass. It has now been 3 months off AAS and with intermittet use of Test elavators and Detoxers of various sorts I now feel everything is very close to normal (Morning 'wood', getting turned on by sexy women, increased testicle size, more viscous 'you-know-what' (trying not to get too x-rated whilst still showing how I guage 'normallity'). Whist i'm sure a motility count would reveal i'm not quite at 100%, I am still happy enough with the stage i'm at..

A second reason was that a few of the substances used are shown to induce Hyperplasia (muscle cell splitting) thus giving more muscle cells for the AAS in the next phase to work on. So it also acted as a 'priming' cycle too..

A what?!?!?.

Sorry but the knowledge I have in pharmacueticals is not the same as what I have on computers! What the hell is a "rep button"?..

Comment #17

There's an icon bottom left that you can click on, near the triangle 'report post' icon that looks like a street sign.

Excellent thread, very interesting read...

Comment #18

Hehehehehehehe.

I think if you go to your control panel it shows you your recent rep points and who you got them off..

I`m guessing cos I aint got any yet..

Comment #19

Well Neil I am happy you came out on top from all this. It's very impressive the way you and some others micromanage your bodies to this degree. I hope no one else tries this crazy sh*t...

Comment #20

But is it necessary ? does it elicit results that are unachievable on EQ and winny ? is it worth the added risk ? why do I ask so many questions ?

Comment #21

To be great you must..

Not for me.

On it's face probably not, but Neil is always got something cooking in the background, like using this as a precursor into his next cycle.

Not for me, but I am sure if Neil wanted different results he would have used something else...

Comment #22

Hope you dont take offence to this Neil, I'm speaking with a friend of mine in mind here in actual fact..

I think too many people are looking for the fastest way to pack on muscle! this doesnt start and end with a 16 year old boy who feels skinny in the school yard. I think many bodybuilders are worse.. as often health concerns play second fiddle..

As bodyworks says. can the same thing not be achieved with a more regular less risky cycle? of course it can.... can it be achieved in the same time frame? probably not in the case of a dedicated educated bodybuilder. in the case of someone who may not be as dedicated as neil... I think both time frames would probably be the same in all honesty..

I have friends who compete, who use every compound known to man.. because these are what the top bodybuilders use... it's my opinion that they forget that maybe those top bodybuilders got to that position using all the regular stuff (inluding hard work)... and then use the more cutting edge stuff to maybe move up to the next level.... but word gets about... and everybody wants to be ronnie coleman...

Max and paddy from down the gym are shitting blood and taking insulin without eating carbs (i kid you not)... I have new starters asking me in the gym if clenbuterol is any good as said max and paddy have told them it melts the fat away.... when I tell them they have been training for 3 weeks and shouldnt consider it they look a bit baffled... a week later they have bought some and are asking how to take it.... I tell them not to - again!!!.

When people ask me about steroids and side effects etc.. I tell them that yes of course they have side effects.. most of them are quite harmless.. but abuse WILL lead to health problems down the line. I'm open and say that I DO take alot of gear.. I compete so I feel this justifies that...

But I dont bullshit people that I'm superman and dont care what I put into me!! I never do anything which I dont first understand or research thoroughly! and I understand theres ALWAYS a level of risk!.

I have friends who spend thousands of pounds on gear (not just a few thousand either) to get shredded using GH.. then boast that they competed without doing much cardio!! lol... what a fcuked up opinion on bodybuilding.. glorifying taking drugs whilst not havin the hard graft to do cardio every day! they have a few nice trophies, a massive hole in their pocket.. and a partner who despises the sport because of how much it costs!.

I have one friend in particular who loves the sport, who has never competed, but would love to, hes a lovely lad, ive got alot of time for him, hes like a labrador, a heart of gold, but will listen to anyone... and if someone comes along with a handful of "get shredded magic beans" hes the one wholl sell his cow..... he has something called sleep apnea... I'm not 100% sure what it is... but it's basically not enough oxygen being taken in because hes too heavy (watery and fat even tho hes still alot of muscle)... so he can fall asleep very quickly...

Etc.... and has to sleep with an oxygen mask at times to stop him from gasping for air/oxygen on a night time!.

He decided last year that this spring he would do a show... me and a friend advised him that he needed to start dieting asap, clean up his act, maybe even have 2 diets as he had alot to lose... he needed to look at how much gear he was using cos he used alot and that whilst dieting hed be putting a massive strain on his body... we told him that he needed to think long term to get to where he wanted to be, but if he worked at it hed be there (not for the show hed originally planned for.. but maybe a few month later) and probably in much much better health!... he listened..

Then asked a FRIEND for their opinion... that friend told him if he took a high dose of GH, IGF1, went on a ketogenic diet and used insulin on his carb up days hed probably make his originally planned show in time.... and that if he used dnp hed prob be in shape much quicker too.... not one concern for their friends health issues.... anyways..

Hes still fat.. no plans to do a show now!! doesnt look any different... apart from the hole in his pocket... and the ticking sound when you stand near him getting a bit louder!!.

Personally... I'm happy being healthy and filling my frame out slowly... and spending the money I earn at work on my family and not realising in 5 years time that they dont just resent me competing but that they resent me too!!! my wife and my family understand that I put alot into bodybuilding.... but I never take anything away from them so I can put things into it... especially not my health!.

Anyways... maybe that rant was a little off topic... but once I start I keep on!! lol..

Comment #23

Can someone please explain why neils cyle was so,well,dangerous?.

So many peeps these days are using igf/hgh and albeit to a lesser degree insulin too..

Apart from the epo the cycle dont seem that unusual?.

I`m the first to admit I only got a vague knowledge of AAS usage.

And wouldnt touch any part of the cycle with a barge pole but cant really beleive anyone would read about it and think "oh i`ll try that"..

Perhaps we need a new section for advanced anabolic discussion...

Comment #24

Lee that was a great post.

As for the reason Neil uses what he uses, no one knows except Neil. I cannot even fathom the insight that would have to be premeditated before using such a diverse cycle...

Comment #25

Lee - No offense taken whatsoever mate..

It doesn't come across as your arguement targetting myself, more people who are too easily influenced by others instead of doing the hard graft..

I get teenagers asking me about using gear and growth and all sorts coz 'there big mate' told 'em. I tell them to wait til they've finished growing naturally first. They seem shocked that I had been training for 11 years natural before I took any gear and even then it was only 5 x 2mg winstrol tabs a day whilst dieting for the Novice NE Britain. I have since then researched and experimented to find what works for me and what doesn't. Something I am still doing..

My motivation for making this post was mainly the fact that I see numerous other people, on various other forums posting about using 2000+mg of gear a week and 6-10iu Gh with 10iu Insulin & 100mcg IGF-1 a day too!!!.

There is no point telling people that you can achieve your goals without all this, it will just take longer because human nature IS impatience and in todays society we are all about having everything now, 24hr this and that and everything is convenience. add to that the fact that we are a drug using society - [ Get a cold, go to docs for a pill; got a headache- take a pill, get pregnant, go to docs for a pill; don't wanna get pregnant - theirs a pill for that too and so on and so on]. It is ingrained into our minds 24 hours a day..

So I was just trying to show people who are gonna do these things anyway that they do not need high dose concoctions as low dosages work just as good if you use things right..

And BW, mate, you are quite right , it is NOT neccessary to do this just to get a decent physique, but these class 1 guys now are walking onstage well over 250 lbs and I'm 10-15 lbs under that so I need to catch up a bit coz I've been doing these low dosage gear only cycles for years and, although I am gaining steadily, my competitors are gaining quicker, and I am now getting to the stage of 'needs must'..

Crazycal - the only real thing (apart from EPO) that is dangerous in the stack is the combing of Glucophage with insulin as they both directly effect blood sugar levels. However I can assure everyone that I researched both substances FULLY for several months before embarking on the actual use of them both..

I hope this make sense , and clear up a few points too..

PS - Sorry it's so long but I wanted to try set peoples minds at ease..

Take care all!!..

Comment #26

Well your still typing Neil mate.. so your doing something right!! lol.

Just a comment on class 1... I really dont think theres anyone at the moment in the UK who is "amazing" as a class 1 competitor... theres a few who are very good and you know in a few years have the potential to be something special.... (steve baker, Dave Titterton) but theres quite a big field all condsidered (you included) who if they fill out their frame nice and balanced and come in full and shredded... could easily walk away with the class 1 britain! - just my opinion!..

Comment #27

Hi.

New ti this site luv the replys and info..

I have only ever taken gear stacks but due to stubborn fat round my waist I was thinkin of GH.

Is it really effective at stripping fat and how much should I take. Currently weigh 16.5 stone..

Cheers..

Comment #28

Once again lee, you're spot on with that post. gonna stop posting on this thread now, it looks like a personal attack on neil and it's not. I know what neil's refering to when he says other forums have guys advocating 2g plus per week and other stuff on top. many guys do take that, and more, the BIG guys use even more no doubt, but i've seen pics of one guy on another forum, who's stack was nuts, and he looked, let's say, not wholely impressive. what i'll finish on is neils point that as a competitor, the standard is getting harder to keep up with, necessitating larger doses, more dangerous compounds and longer more persistant cycles just to be in the same class as the rest. unfortunately, this is very true, and however we dress it up, it's a decision we have to make...

Comment #29

I agree, no more posts is a good idea, as nobody on here is attacking Neil!!..

Comment #30

Its Okay guys, I'm not taking it as a personal attack.

I do however want to thank everyone for their input and opinions in this thread as it has been a very informative journey for us all. (I hope!!).

Cheers and hopefully see some of you at the shows!..

Comment #31


This question was taken from a support group/message board and re-posted here so others can learn from it.

 

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