Your question was: Are there any good testosterone boosting stuff at GNC or VitaminShoppe?.
Thanks guys, fast work and thank you!!.
O.K. then this is the history..
At the moment i'm in the middle of an eight week Nandrolone Decanoate only cycle, taking 4ml per week, 2ml in each thigh, everything i'd read had said that this was the lower end of the dose scale.
My gains are better than i'd expected, i've gone from 74kg to 81kg with little water retention, a few spots on my back - but nothing major, no moodiness, my strength gains have increased nicely, but i've never been a really heavy lifter, but i'm happy with what i'm doing.
I'm not really looking for huge mass gains, I was just hoping for a modest increase leaving me some nice gains in both muscle size and strength... if I can keep what i've got this far, i'll be more than happy!.
Can you suggest what pct I should get sorted, i've got four weeks to get my shit together....so to speak..
Thanks in advance.....be gentle...
Never used AAS, but I read evey article I come across on the subject. Every1 of them stated, you should never start a cycle without having everything you need 1st. so I'm guessing you've been bad..
Some1 will probably post advice, seeing as your health is at risk, the guys that can answer the question are probably busy atm..
Nandrolone (decca) only cycles are not the best mate... mainly due to the fact that they will shut you down good and proper! lol.
One question.. not that it's really relevant... but I'm not sure how clued up you are... you say your taking 4ml per week... some decca is 100mg/ml and some is 200mg/ml... so you could be using 400mg per week or 800mg per week! do you know what mg you are using?.
I always run a very simple clomid only pct. basically becasue I know it works for me and I dont suffer bad sides - ok my wife may disagree lol: (pscarb has more knowledge of PCT so he will prob advise otherwise).
Day 1 - 300mg clomid (6 tabs).
Day 2 - 200mg clomid (4 tabs).
Days 3-12 - 100mg clomid (2 tabs).
Days 13-21 - 50mg clomid (1 tab)..
So thats 400mg per week! just checking as sometimes people dont understand the difference between mg's and ml's..
IMO most guys dont use PCT because it's not always needed, if your running any type of androgenic steroid then I would say use pct, the main reason me and maybe some other guys on here think twice about running pct DURING a cycle is because it makes the steroid slighty weaker(myself included I will not run anti estrogen unless I have anyside effects from androgen steroids). BUT I WILL ALWAYS HAVE IT on hand just incase I need it, like now I'm running it with anapolon 50..
I woudnt use pct if I was doing , ganabol, deca or winstrol.
But if I was running dianabol, anapolon,test then I will alway heve it on hand..
Axalot you would not use any PCT if you run Deca hell that stuff will shut you down more than most....PCT is always needed if you run any Anabolic Steroid your body will suppress the HPTA when a synthetic substance is introduced into the body for any length of time..
Thinking that you do not need PCT is just stupid and fooling yourself especially seeing as PCT is so cheap compared to Anabolics....
Lee that PCT is a decent one and pretty much standard I don't use Clomid as it gives me and those I prep bad sides going from acne to blurred vision also it has been proven that 20mg of Nolvadex has the same PCT effect on the HPTA as 150mg of Clomid..
Slim Jim - inmo I would never run a deca only cycle mainly because I like to get hardons with this type of cycle you have 2 choices.
Choice 1: Start your PCT 3 weeks after your last jab of Deca to accommodate the ester and use either the PCT I mentioned in my first reply or Lee's both will help you recover..
Choice 2: lower you Deca course to 8 weeks the day after your last jab of Deca use 100mg of Test Prop eod for 3 weeks then 3 days after your last shot of Prop use one of the PCT methods detailed..
I also use HCG in my cycle I don't call it PCT as PCT is Post Cylce not Part way through Cycle I would use 500iu's of HCG 3 x week eow from the end of week 2, the only diffrence to this is my current cycle as I won't be getting suppressed as quickly so will start it from the end of week 5.....
Axal... as paul has said... and this seems a common misconception on here.... the same meds can be used for both PCT and during cycle... they are used for 2 different reasons at these times... so when you say you run PCT during cycle..
PCT is used at the END OF A CYCLE to restore your bodys own testosterone production! the reasons they are used are below:.
1. DURING CYCLE - clomid or nolva are ran during a cycle to help against any kind of side effects from excessive estrogen in your body (i.e. bitch tits). using these meds in this way is NOT going to help with PCT recovery at all..
2. AT END OF CYCLE - clomid or nolva or HCG.. or a combination.. are used at end of cycle to help restore your bodys own natural testosterone production. THIS IS PCT!!.
* the one exception is HCG which can be used during cycle to lessen the amount of shutdown and in theory make recover easier..
Pscarb is more up on this than me so please correct me if I'm wrong on anything here mate!..
Jeez, guys, i'm starting to get a little unsure here.....
So, I screwed up... but it's not the end of the world, I can't be the first and I guess I wont be the last..
My main question NOW is.... what PCT should I be getting sorted? PLS!!.
At the moment everything is going great, gaining mass, still holding some definition, work-outs are good - pushing it hard, recovery - could feel better though, but nothing i'm worried about..
So why is that they say Deca is one of the safest, with the least side effects, for the dosage you take, anabolics around then. I really thought I could take an eight week cycle of Deca only and not have a problem... shit happens... but I can still come out of this on top.....can't i?.
Oh by the way, pscarb, i'm having no trouble with my hardons, sex is great and there were no complaints from the good lady last night, or is this something that comes later....no pun intended!.
Thanks again guys, it's appriciated...
No need to worry slimjim....
Just ensure you have your PCT meds ready and your schedule mapped out for when your done with the gear!.
Ive never tried switching to fast acting gear (test prop) at end of a course before... as paul has suggested above.... but I will be doing at end of current course on pauls advice..
Id suggest following pauls advice and choosing from the options he has suggested above.... there is no need to panick.. just ensure that your PCT does the job. - I think the main point here is many people.. as with yourself have great gains and still get good solid hard ons all way through a course and because of this assume that their own natural test production is not shut down... it will be and will need correct PCT to restore!..
Nope mate you got this one nailed.
SlimJim - you have not messed up mate this is your first cycle and at least you have had the good sense to ask the question about PCT..
Swap to the Prop for 3 weeks after your deca this is so you still have AAS in your body whilst the deca amount is reducing if you did not do this you would have to wait 3 weeks before you started PCT with nothing helping your natty test levels kick start.....
I would go with the Nolva option as it is simpler than the clomid..
Glad your sex drive is still high and the missus is happy Deca is renown for causing Limp **** and with no test in the cycle this could be made worse....you will definatly feel the kick from the Prop.
If you have any questions just ask mate.....
...one question, it may seem a bit lame, but what do you mean by 'swap to the prop for three weeks?'..... or am I just being even more thick??..... it's been a long day..
Swap to the prop - change the gear from deca to testosterone propionate - a fast acting ester of testosterone..
If your cycle is 10 wks then on wks 7 to 10 stop using your deca and swop to prop. At the end of wk 10 the deca will be out of your system and and you can use pct a few days after your last jab of prop..
Remember prop us fast acting and out of your system quickly where as decc is long acting and stays around longer...
Lee b,,MATE we got our wires crossed with the post cycle therapy(pct) see what you mean after a cycle and during a cycle..
....and you other guys, thanks for your help! -.
I guess I never new what a black-art taking gear could be.
Well, we learn from our mistakes!.
So... is this how I get out of the mess i've potentially got myself into?.
1: I finish my eight week cycle of Nandrolone, at 4ml (400mg) per week..
2: then for another 3 weeks I take testosterone proprionate.. at how much a week.... and as it's short acting, do I take it once a week or more?.
3: then 3 weeks of Nolvadex?.
Please correct me if i've got it wrong..
...you know, i'm really quite pissed off with myself for being such a **** up!..
Nice one buddy...
If I get out of this in one piece, still holding on to my gains, that's one I owe you brother! - big time..
Now I just have to get in touch with my source and get everything I need..
I'll keep in touch and let you know how i'm doing..
...............may the road always rise to greet you!..
If I can't get hold of 'Prop', is there anyhting else that can be recommended?.
I'm on the case as we speak.... so to speak...
.........the guy who sorts me out gets under another name, it seems to come under the name of 'TESTEX 200', ever heard of it?.
Testex is Cyponaite not Proponaite, what brands does your source sell?.
If you cannot get proponaite you can do 3 weeks of Dianabol at 30mg ed..
...can you tell me what the difference is.... I guess one has a longer life than the other?.
I'm making inquiries...
Testex is misunderstood by most... because it's long technical name contains teh word "prop"... people assume it's propionate. it is actually cypionate..
Both cyp and prop are testosterone... the difference is in how they are released into your body:.
Prop = in and out of your body within 2-3 days... so if you had a jab today your body would be using the testosterone straight away and after 2-3 days it would be all gone.. hence why you inject every other day!.
Cyp = in and out of your body in 3-4 weeks... so can be injected less frequently.. but is slowly released into your system and lingers in your body for 3-4 weeks after last jab.
You use the prop for the last 3 weeks of cycle basically because decca is same as cyp... it still lingers in your body for 3 weeks after last jab... slowly diminishing... basically meaning your body is slowly fighting a losing battle until you can start your PCT. by using the prop, your giving the body access to testosterone immediately.. meaning your body can still gain (rather than fight the losing battle)...
Once the decca is totally out of your system, you cut the prop and 3 days later your ready to start PCT... meaning you have missed that 3 weeks of slowly letting your body lose some gains!!.
Hope this explains it bud!..
Whats an advantage between using cyp vs enth? How do they differ?..
Very little from what I know.. it's more down to personal preference....
Many in US prefer cyp.. many in uk prefer enan...
Ive used both testex (cyp) and iranian enan in past with excellent results! at end of day test is test in my opinion!..
.. my source can only get hold of the following stuff....
I have a feeling these are all long life testosterones, after searching the web quickly this morning, so I guess these are no good?.
I'll have to go with the Dianabol for the last three weeks before going on to the Nolvadex..
....not out of the woods yet......
You know, i'm really quite disapointed with myself! I really thought i'd been quite thorough and done the homework... got everything ready...( obviously not thought!!) one of the biggest fears I had was injecting and getting an abcess or some other infection... man, I swab everything with alcohol wipes, clean the site, inject slowly... it's been quite good injection - in a sort of a weird way, a bit scarry, but I did it - and haven't had a single problem..
I thought i'd read enough about 'Deca' to be able to take 400mg for eight weeks and walk away from it with some good gains. Boy did I get it wrong.......DID I GET IT WRONG!....All I wanted was a little extra strength and mass, nothing over the top. Everything i'd read was saying this dosage was at the lower end of the scale to get gains with no side effects - Deca being one to have the least - so it wouldn't be a problem..
I'm not going to let this beat me and put me off..... I just don't want to lose the gains i've made or get ill from it..
...they say, we make our own misery!......
SlimJim - stop beating yourself up this is your first cycle and to be honest making some mistakes are par for the course, you have got the important things right with the correct injection process....
Get some D/bol and do 30mg ed for 3 weeks this will sort you out mate....
Hi there, just noticed that you mention your nolvadex but dont mention your HCG which is I think more important in the PCT process at the end ot the cycle, thats the point of taking fast acting roids so that your PCT I.E HCG can kick in your own test..
Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm too still learning and todate this has been one of the best threads ive read...
Some people prefer HCG to nolva/clomid and some use HCG alongside one of these... hjowever it's not essential in my opinion..
Its also not the point of taking fast acting... the point of taking fast acting gear (as I stated above) is to keep blood levels of steroids high whilst teh long acting gear tapers out of your system.......
The pct itself is just as effective regardless of whether fast/slow gear is used.... the advantage of fast acting gear is it does not allow your bodys concentrations of gear to diminish which means your gains are kept better!..
Nolva stops Gino and thats why it's used during a cycle, and HCG is used at the end and during cycle to kick in ones own test in, whats the point of just nolva at the end of a cycle?.
Thanks mate your input is A1 as usual..
To block the estrogen rebound from the lack of testosterone in your body as you come off, and to kickstart that testosterone production as a result..
Cool cheeres Nick, ive always stopped using nolva when comming off, I now realise I should of continued, I can now see why most if not all of my gains where lost..
My next Cycles PCT will be spot on hopefully start next week 10 wk course...
When you take a synthetic estrogen at end of your cycle your in fact "tricking" your body into producing test......
At end of cycle your test is basically at nothing.... by taking a synthetic estrogen like clomid at a high dose at this point your flooding your body with estrogen... your bodys natural response is to try and re-dress the balance of estrogen/test... so starts producing test again to keep everything in balance... the clomid (estrogen) is then tapered off over a few weeks as your body is still redressing that balance... so estrogen goes down as test goes up....
Hope this makes it a little more clear!..
Ali - HCG kick starts your nuts it does not restore test levels, I am against using HCG in PCT because the main purpose to PCT is to raise Natty test levels and to do this you need to control the estrogen levels that at this point are much higher than test levels..
So why would you want to inject HCG when this is in fact a female hormone..
Also many inject to much HCG post cycle which will create a negative feedback to your nuts and damage the leydig cells which are responsible in part to help raise test levels..
The best way to use HCG is in small amounts(500iu's) eod or e3d during the cycle this will help your nuts to be primed for when your PCT starts..
Nolvadex does alot more than just stop Gyno during PCT it will do alot more than clomid with alot less....
As Lee has pointed out about the use of the fast acting AAS in the last 2-3 weeks this is needed so you have something in your body until you can carry out PCT as PCT will not be succesful whilst you have high amounts of AAS circulating in your system.....
Right slowly getting the point here guys and it's important that I do, so at the end of my cycle assmuming I'm on short acting roids all I need to take is the Nolva which ive been taking throughout the course anyway, do I up the nolva? And take a few shots of HCG..
If I'm not getting the point here lets assume my last injection of a short accting roid was today, I have no PCT, lol. What shall I now do and in what dosasges..
Guys you r a great help and I know if I can get my pct nailed this will help towards my long term gold..
Keeping hold of my gains...
Ok so in an ideal world you would of been using small doses of HCG throughout your cycle so say today was your last shot of Prop then on sat morning you have two options...
Day 1 300mg.
Days 2-11 - 150mg.
Days 12-21 - 50mg.
Days 1-7 40mg ed.
Days 8-21 20mg ed.
Days 1 - 21 50mg Clomid & 20mg Nolva (these doses are not exact as they are individual).
Hope this helps mate..
OH mate that is spot on, I cant thank you enough, I even asked my mate who has competed and won lots and he did not know the answer, god knows how he got to the level he did..
I cant thank you enough, if you ever need a mortgage call me and ill broker it for free no fees and any commission from the lender ill give to you..
So many people dont understand the importance of correct PCT.... then when it comes to their next course they wonder why they cant gain using the same amounts of gear as before!..
Ali - no problems mate it is a pleasure to help guys like yourself and help prevent you making the same mistake as I did when I started...
I usually do my injections on a Friday morning.
Tomorrow i'm out of the office all day and wont have a convienient time to do the job until later that evening.... and i'm usually busier at home than I am at work..
Is it alright to take your shot the day before, if I do it this afternoon I can do it without rushing..
Does it matter if you take your weekly short a day early or a day late, or should you 'strictly' keep to the same day every week?..
No mate you can take it when convenient within reason..
Just one last thing guys I'm now sorted on the PCT and I take my HCG every 3rd day throughout my course. Do I take the HCG right up to the end of my PCT?.
In my opinion no only use the HCG up to PCT as this is the time you need to slightly kick your nuts into motion so they do not go deep under cover so to speak, they will be then more receptive to PCT also the main point to PCT is to lower estrogen and raise Test levels HCG is a female hormone so basically liquid estrogen.....
.... before you ask, the boss is away.... so time to get some serious work done......
Yo big fellers -.
I have my Dbol and nolvadex at the ready. With three more weeks of the Nandrolone to go, when do I start taking the Dbol...... do I give it a week and then start on the Dbol, tapering down in the third week then start on the nolvadex..... i'd be grateful if you could spell it out for me...... I don't want to lose these gains after all this hard work!.
I'm indebted to you fellers - if there's anything I can do to return the favour, let me know and i'll do what I can.
One other request... I know it's abit early, but is there any chance you could recommend a second cycle for me ( if i'm to go for it of course..) just so I can get feel for the cost and the time scale involved.
Sorry for not replying to the PM mate have been a little distracted....
Once you have finished your Decca start taking 30mg of D/bol ed for the 3 weeks then 24hrs after your last D/bol tab start your PCT it is really that simple..
As for your next course first we need to see what you hold onto from this course so leave it until after your PCT then ask the question again....
Right then guys.....
Just picked up some 'Tamoxifen', 30 tabs, the guy said he didn't have any Nolva, but his was the same thing?.
Also, some 'Methandrostenolone 5', 100 tabs, which should be the Dbol..
Any comments...... please let them be good!..
Tamoxifen is nolvadex... nolvadex is just a brand name! should be fine!.
The dbol tabs.. there are loads of fakes about... what brand are yours? what colour are they? how are they packaged?..
There should be a picture there somewhere... how odd... did I do something wrong???..
Its a generic copy.. lots of them about!!.
Ive herad good and bad reports of these to be honest... id say they should be ok... but like I say I have heard some bad reports.. from what I know they are underdosed too 4mg not 5mg!..
They are iranian D/bol can be pretty harsh on the stomach and kidneys but you are only taking 30-35mg ed so as long as you take some Liv52 or milk thistle you will be fine...
LeeB & pscarb..
I'm indebted to you both. Not everyone is happy to share their knowlege and spell it out in plain english what it is we should be doing. I've visited other forums and this is by far the best!.
The truth is, I messed up when planning my AAS cycle..... you both got me out of jam, and I thank you!!.
The world of steroids is a funny one, there is so much information out there, but it's not until you speak with someone who's been there and done it AND KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT do you start understanding the real ins and outs of it all..
.............I had to get myself some more pins and barrels from the needle exchange here..... I told them all about PCT and as helpful as they are, they had now idea about why it was so important, even they were amazed..
Health and happiness to you all,.
Thanks again, and I dare say i'll keep in touch...
Glad to know we can help mate..
As you say theres lots of people out there who have spoke to big dave mcnotverybig from their gym once or twice and because of this think that they are an expert......
Id never profess to be an expert... but nor am I an idiot.. I dont do anythying to myself that I do not fully understand why I would be doing it or that I have not researched fully!..
No problem mate knowledge is the key to success and I am more than happy to share what I know.....
Just to keep you guys up to date.....
Just took my penultimate Deca jabs - 200ml in each quad....ooooh lovely. It's funny but I get a little anxious / nervous as I'm loading up, wipe my thigh, then push it in... ooh-wer-misses......and I don't feel a thing, ( sounds like the wife?..) it's weird but I quite enjoy it. Needles these days must be sooo Sharpe..
So far there's been no real problems. Only once when I drew back to check if I'd hit a vein did the syringe start pulling in some blood, so I just withdrew and tried again and got it right. I don't even get any small bruises. Occasionally I'd get a little soreness, but that'd be gone by the next day.
I'm looking forward to starting the D'bol and getting onto the Tamoxifem and seeing how much of my gains I hang on to?? At the moment I've levelled out at 82 - 83kg. You can still see some abs. My lift are good and i'm still pushing it hard, got a little tennis elbow that only irritates on dumbbell curls.
Also had a cold - (boo hoo, sniff, sniff ) - these past few days, nothing serious thank goodness, but I've rested this week as I don't want to go down with anything worse that'll keep me away from the gym any longer than I have too..
So next week will be my last week of the Deca - that's eight weeks - then I start the D'bol..
... well, that was the last of the Deca, I guess it's straight onto the D'bol for the next three weeks now, lets hope this all works!.
Had a great training session yesterday, leg work and and shoulders, I seemed to be incredibly strong, or at least stronger than i've been before, and it felt reallygood lifting. ( just seem to be getting stronger at each workout.) feeling tired today though.... but i'm sure i'll have recovered by tomorrow, ready for a monster arm workout - weighted tricep dips, 30kg. ( it's probably a girly weight, but it's good for me!).
No problems with bloat, the abs are just about visabe, spots, a few on the shoulders but nothing serious and no sudden hair loss ( hair loss being one of my main fears - i'm just too vain for my own good - a bald head doesn't suit me.... you have to be really good looking to get away with it.... ).
Pscarb & LeeB:.
Just to make sure I get it right - I took my last Deca this morning, so do I start the D'bol tomorrow?.
Hi there big guys -.
Can I start working on losing body fat while i'm still taking the D'bol?.
I've been on six a day for the past week and everything seems to be going really well. My weight has gone up another 5 or 6 lbs - i'm now just under 13 and a half stone about 85kg. - wouldn't say i'm holding loads of bloat.
Warmed up the other day with 100kg on close grip bench press for triceps..... which is nice..
I'm thinking of just starting to eat less calories, keeping my protien intake the same and get back into some serious cardio work..
It's a weird feeling, eating has been one of the hardest parts of this gear cycle for me, generally i'm not a big eater and eating when i'm not really hungry has sometimes been hard work... and now it's coming to the time to start losing the fat, it feels strange to now cut down on the amount I eat, just i'm getting into a good routine..
So.. with two weeks of the D'bole left and then another three weeks of Tamoxifem, is O.k. to start stripping the fat off and lowering my calories?.
Technically yes... BUT I would not advise it!.
When your start your PCT your body is actually "recovering"... so cutting calories and attempting to shed fat could lead to you shedding muscle instead....
Id say keep everything same whilst on PCT as the main aim here is to keep your gains.... then give it 3-4 weeks and then look to cut.....